Seen, Heard, and Valued: Rethinking Connection in Work, Parenting, and Marriage

Sep 29

Episode 14 with Jill and Molly

In this episode of No Permission Necessary, Molly Bierman and Jill Griffin dig into what it really means to feel seen, heard, and valued. at home, at work, and in our closest relationships. From the invisible weight of the “mental load” to the loneliness epidemic, they explore why true connection is harder than ever and what gets in the way of it.

Molly and Jill talk about problem-solving versus simply holding space, the way parenthood reshapes connection, and the impact of social media on our ability to feel known. They share stories of family life, marriage, and leadership that show how vulnerability, curiosity, and better questions can change the way we show up for the people around us.

If you’ve ever felt invisible whether in your career, your home, or your friendships this episode is a reminder that connection is possible, but it starts with seeing and being seen.

Molly Bierman 0:00
Yeah, it says your music is about that right now too. Yeah. What is that?
Jill Griffin 0:06
I don't know, but I noticed when I went to send you those songs today, it said that I can like message you in Spotify.
Molly Bierman 0:14
Well, firstly, let's just put on one of those. Hold on. Do you know that Bodhi this morning?
Jill Griffin 0:22
Bodie was asking no broke boys the other day. Well, listen,
Molly Bierman 0:25
he goes, Mom, he goes, he's asking about, you know, genitalia.
Molly Bierman 0:34
He's very confused about Woman versus man. Okay, so that's separate
Jill Griffin 0:37
and apart, but those are important conversations.
Molly Bierman 0:41
But he goes, Okay, so you're a girl and Daddy's a boy and I'm a No bro boy.
Jill Griffin 0:51
Why was that this conclusion?
Molly Bierman 0:54
He loves the song. That's where he that's where he went. I was like, We love that energy for a 6am wake up on a Wednesday morning.
Jill Griffin 1:07
I was up at 409, that's you want to
Molly Bierman 1:10
be exact. Wait, wasn't there some another song you sent me? Yeah, it's not on here now, really, oh no, it's just way back. We've already had many texts in 6am I had to scroll back like three pages to get to that. Let's say
Molly Bierman 1:30
it's pretty good.
Molly Bierman 1:42
Yeah, yes, maybe I'll go to the club this weekend while I'm in Vegas.
Molly Bierman1:52
You think you're gonna have energy?
Molly Bierman 1:56
Listen, I can rally. I did way more in high school and partied really hard. Like, I don't know sports school schedules back then, how did we just, like, go out all night?
Jill Griffin 2:12
I was saying to somebody the other day, I don't know how people are out here, drinking, hungover the next day and functioning. I do not
Molly Bierman 2:21
used to do it all the time.
Jill Griffin 2:25
I don't know if you are a millennial and you are drinking and then getting up the next morning and functioning. How I have that? I have bags under my eyes, and I'm not I'm not drinking.
Molly Bierman 2:41
I mean,
Jill Griffin 2:43
I, let me tell you something, I ate like shit last weekend, Friday and Saturday. And by eating like shit, I mean pizza pretzels, just like
Molly Bierman 2:53
a bunch of pumpkin ice cream, which
Jill Griffin 2:57
I vibe with pumpkin ice cream. Anyway, that sounded so gross. It was just two days of just intentional. I don't give a fuck energy. And you know who, what did give a fuck my entire body. Because by Sunday my my stomach woke me up multiple times. Saturday night, I had a horrible night's sleep. So it made me think, like if you're drinking constantly, you must not get a good night's sleep either, because two days of shitty eating, and you know, if you're drinking you're not eating well, you're not no, you're eating greasy wings or pizza or
Molly Bierman 3:33
eating no, you're eating Taco Bell On route 80, off of quitting
Jill Griffin 3:41
100 it's not good decisions, I bet. So basically, I was eating like a drunk person, Friday and Saturday is what the moral of the story is, and I paid for it. There were a lot of Tums. There were a lot of Tums.
Molly Bierman 3:57
I just ordered my husband this tea that I got, you know, whatever roped into on Instagram, supposed to help with your digestion. We'll see it arrived today. I'm telling you, it probably took four weeks to get here. So I'm not sure what's in it, or what it's made of, but it is, is it
Jill Griffin 4:16
from Asia? I don't know where it came from. You should probably know,
Molly Bierman 4:23
I don't think so. I mean, it's, it's a, it's, it was made by a doctor,
Jill Griffin 4:29
a real doctor, or a molly Dearman doctor. That's a critical
Molly Bierman 4:35
distinction, both, what is this he's supposed to do? Both can be effective. I don't know.
Molly Bierman 4:46
I got spammed into it. I mean, it said it was Harry, said he just tried us back
Molly Bierman 4:52
life. You're lying.
Molly Bierman4:56
Do you want a pod with us? I.
Molly Bierman 5:04
I'm asking,
Jill Griffin 5:11
Can I just tell you that Alan is now in our football pick on League, and the amount of stress that this is creating in him. And I was like, honestly, Alan, he's like, you, you didn't give me any instruction. You didn't tell me what to do. I was like, I've actually told you every step of the way what needed to be done. You're upset because you're like, in last place for the week, and I don't know what to tell you. Like, that. It's this, if it's going to be this stressful, maybe you shouldn't participate. Like you're taking this really seriously for someone. Seriously for someone who really doesn't care about football.
Molly Bierman 5:47
So now I think Alan sometimes I think I am Alan Allen is me. I, you know, and then there's other days where I'm like, No, we, we're not, we're not one of the same.
Jill Griffin 6:01
So, so, finally, so, basically, this, this all came to a head right before I stepped on the field as the football coach, the flag football coach on Sunday, which we didn't really get to download about that, but Beckett was throwing bombs, and a bomb when you are seven year old, means, like, a 15 yard pass. Not only did he throw the pass, but this, this kid was catching them. So, like, everyone was shocked, and I looked like, I don't know Bill Belichick in his prime, but the reality is, I didn't even know these kids could run a pass play until Sunday. But I'm on the field like this to Alan because he was, he's like,
Molly Bierman 6:42
I was like, so amazing, dude,
Molly Bierman 6:44
it's amazing. Harry just said he he has a call at 930 but he should be off by 950 and could jump on right after.
Jill Griffin 6:56
What do we want to do? Does he want to jump on? What are we going to talk about if he jumps on?
Jill Griffin 7:08
First of all, first of all, is he going to be sharing this on all his socials so we can get 250 followers on the episode or truly, that's our next goal that we're trying to reach here.
Molly Bierman 7:26
Well, I'll tell him that we're gonna schedule him, because I feel like we have to get into this. We will schedule you way too late.
Jill Griffin 7:36
Oh, you want to hear a bomb ass song too? I heard
Molly Bierman 7:38
today. Yeah.
Molly Bierman 7:47
Wait This way you got to turn up a little.
Molly Bierman 8:02
I It's so weird that your mic, I can't hear that as much as I can hear I can hear it, but it's not like clear. I wonder what's going on with your mic.
Molly Bierman8:17
Nothing. Okay. It's
Molly Bierman 8:20
weird that we can hear, literally, the people who running a vacuum four floors away. You can't
Jill Griffin 8:25
hear this. Can you hear this?
Molly Bierman 8:33
Just thinking, sure was
Molly Bierman 8:36
a headphone. Oh, oh, that's what happened. Something just happened. What something just happened? You had been using your you had been Can you hear something just happened? I'm not exactly sure what, but something 100% just happened, because now taking off. I can hear the jet taking off behind you.
Molly Bierman 9:02
There's no jet,
Molly Bierman 9:05
and now I can hear you and your mic. That's what was going on. You were coming out of somewhere else, maybe, like your headphone was your audio and your outfit.
Jill Griffin 9:15
This says that it's come that the mic is the Yeah, can you hear me out of here?
Molly Bierman 9:21
I can't, yes,
Jill Griffin 9:28
yeah, so this is noise canceling, so you can't hear my surroundings maybe, right? I'm not it okay, and I keep getting put in a position to be it, and it's okay.
Molly Bierman 9:40
Couple things. You're loud now, so turn.
Molly Bierman 9:47
I didn't even change anything.
Molly Bierman 9:50
Hold up your mic for a second. Maybe it's just because you were so close.
Molly Bierman 9:58
I think I have it backwards.
Molly Bierman 10:00
It? Yeah, you do, and I think you've had it backwards every episode, actually for a while. Your gain is also really high. Mine's much lower.
Jill Griffin 10:14
What about now? That feels better? What about now? Yeah, all right? Well, it's the right way now. Way better. Okay, but, but can you hear,
Molly Bierman 10:30
now I can
Jill Griffin 10:36
that's this is will I? Am
Molly Bierman 10:42
I? All
Jill Griffin 10:53
right, this irritated mood isn't gonna break my soul today. All right, let's we can start recording. Now you can start recording.
Molly Bierman 11:03
And I am going to tell you that I have an excavator out back, and there may be noise that comes from the rear.
Jill Griffin 11:10
I can't hear. What are you guys doing out there, digging for a pool?
Molly Bierman 11:18
Oh, I just needed you. Oh, I was like, why am I muted?
Jill Griffin 11:21
Because I needed you. I tried to pin you
Molly Bierman 11:26
digging for a pillow. No, I wish we're just like, layering, leveling out the backyard a little bit more and putting, like, a little kind of more rustic fire pit back there. Okay.
Jill Griffin 11:40
$300,000 later, we are back. It's weird, all that landscaping work,
Molly Bierman 11:47
trying to reconnect, make sure you have a stable internet connection. Okay, so this is going well. Can you hear me?
Jill Griffin 11:54
What happened? I don't know. Can Can you hear me?
Molly Bierman 11:59
Yeah, but it says trying to reconnect. You have a make sure you have a stable internet connection. That's you, dude. I have I understand that. I am just one, so do I, but apparently
Jill Griffin 12:15
it doesn't say it on my end. Usually the IT issues, it's fine. You actually look clear, right now. Usually you're fuzzy, all right?
Molly Bierman 12:23
Well, then I'm just gonna keep rolling. I'm assuming that you can hear me, and I'm assuming that we're recording and I'm assuming that it's catching everything I'm saying. So guys, welcome back. Welcome back today. We are pivoting because we were due to interview someone, and they are not here. So here is we are, but we are and we roll with the punches. Jill, who is the executive producer of this show, thank God, keeps us in line. And we already had a episode lined up of what we were going to talk about. So here
Jill Griffin 12:59
we are. I did here, we are all right.
Molly Bierman 13:02
So you want to give give the listeners a little taste of what we're what we're going to get into and yeah,
Jill Griffin 13:09
we're going to talk about connection. Today. I know there have been seasons in our lives where we felt invisibles, whether invisible, whether it's been in our jobs, our homes, our friendships, marriages, I think today we're talking about what it really means to connect and be seen, and why that matters, especially in leadership. I really liked this quote from Brene Brown, which I feel like she is the leader in connection in that space. And I really liked this quote to kick us off, I define connection as the energy that exists between people, when they feel seen, heard and valued, when they can give and receive without judgment, and when they derive sustenance and strength from their relationship.
Molly Bierman 13:56
Listen, I feel like I do. Maybe one of those, well, at a time, I'm just gonna be honest. Okay, that
Jill Griffin 14:08
middle part, that middle part of giving and receiving without judgment, I'm gonna tell you, has been a struggle lately. I'm actually finding that I'm, in fact, a very judgmental person.
Molly Bierman 14:20
Well, to make someone feel seen, heard and valued all in the same breath. It's a lot. It's a full time job I do. I'm not sure I do all three of those things. Listen. I think I can do that for my clients. I think I can do that for the families that I'm working with. I think when there's more emotional attachment or motive or attachment to the outcome, that's when it's harder to acknowledge people and make sure that they feel seen, heard and valued. Because the reality is, at least for me, is that there is a goal of which I am trying to get. To a couple things with that. One is, as people may or may not know or can pick up on this from the previous episodes, we are problem solvers, so connection is an opportunity to allow the person to just be where they are and not give them a solution
Jill Griffin 15:23
that's that is a problem with being a helper.
Molly Bierman 15:27
It's really hard. It is really hard to get out of that and just say, Okay, I'm gonna sit here. Even my body language can't do it. I'm just trying right now. I'm like, Okay, let's, let's put myself in a position where I am just going to sit here and listen
Jill Griffin 15:44
and and also let you have your process, but it's interesting, because we can do that with a client,
Molly Bierman 15:51
I know, but it's so uncomfortable with others. Why you know? Why you know? What's helping me that with that though, is, is kids, because I do feel like I'll get on the floor with my son. I did this this morning. He's starting to use bad language, bad words. I don't know what the right path is on this. So anyone who wants to write in and give me some tips, I am open. Okay, because you
Jill Griffin 16:16
hear what. Just have to teach them that that's a that you only use those words in the house,
Molly Bierman 16:24
yeah, but if he tells me to shut up, I'm gonna beat his ass.
Jill Griffin 16:28
Oh no, no. We don't say that to each other, but, like, if there's if they, like, hit their hand on something and they're like, oh shit. It's like, well, mommy probably have says, has said that a few times, like, I get it
Molly Bierman 16:39
right, but he picked up the word Shut up. Okay, so let's know that's
Jill Griffin 16:43
that No. That's disrespectful. We're not telling anyone to shut up. That's a no, exactly. So I have an F bomb every now and then kind of respect it, because saying
Molly Bierman 16:52
Fine, but if I'm sitting so what I, what I've tried to do when we talk about connection and energy that exists between people, and I really do love the quote from Brene is that I have been sitting on the ground with him, first of all, telling him he can't say it, redirecting the behavior, potentially, there needs to be a timeout of sorts. Then sitting with him and really saying, like, what are you frustrated by? Or what is you know, what are you struggling with? Or what is it that you're trying to say to mom, right? And so there is this opportunity for me to just be because he can't articulate the things like an adult, right? So there is this natural ability to slow down, look at his body language, hear him what he's trying to say, what he's saying with his body language, etc. So I'm learning, I will tell you, it's still really hard. It's still hard.
Jill Griffin 17:44
Well, I also think there's a difference between I'm just thinking of the times when I feel seen, heard and valued, and they are different. However, there is a difference between someone noticing you and being known like somebody knowing you, somebody understanding where you're coming from, feeling seen, being noticed, and feeling seen, I think, is totally a nuanced conversation too.
Molly Bierman 18:12
Yeah, 100% I think feeling seen is that people understand your deficits, your strengths, your vulnerabilities, yeah, people who who so being seen or being noticed noticed is, oh, I've observed that person. We've been in community with one another a few times, but I don't know anything about them. I notice them because they're a familiar face, but it doesn't mean that I actually have any sort of understanding of them. But I will say that sometimes you can get tripped up and think you know that person right, because you hear other people share bits and pieces about that person's life, and then it and then you that's where the judgment comes in. That's where you start to feel like you're passing judgment on somebody that you truly do not
Jill Griffin 18:57
know in relationships. That's why the people closest to us have the ability to hurt us so much. I think because being seen so somebody, it's almost like one. I think we take people for granted, right? Like, you should know better than to I need support in this way, like there's a lack of communication there. But I also think we put this, I don't know, we put our perception of other people's abilities on them, like, I know you can do this, and so this is what you should be doing, when really that's a judgment. It's like, we we're not really seeing why they're not doing something we want them to be doing. Does that makes sense. Yeah. And it's harder when it's a spouse, a close friend, a sibling, a parent,
Molly Bierman 19:50
someone you're trying to super that you supervise. You're trying to raise them up. Maybe that's not where they want to be. Yeah.
Jill Griffin 19:57
It's like, is this your projection, or is. It, is it their stuff?
Molly Bierman 20:02
I can tell you right now, it's a lot of our projections,
Jill Griffin 20:05
yeah, which goes back to the giving and receiving without judgment. Because, again, when I say I'm a judgmental person, it's because, yeah, being a problem solver and a helper. The downside to that is, I think there is a part of me that's always analyzing how people can do things better in my mind, right? And so as a therapist, though, and as a when I have clients sitting in front of me, I have no problem letting them figure that out and going on that journey, right?
Molly Bierman 20:38
Yeah, because you're not tied to the outcome.
Jill Griffin 20:41
Yes, but when I when it's involved with us personally, it's like, oh, okay, I'm sharing my judgments now,
Molly Bierman 20:49
yeah, because you want something, you know, again, I think it goes back to that fear of what, fear of what you're going to lose, or fear of what you're not going to get right, that kind of really steers our it really steers our actions on a daily basis. Yeah, yeah.
Jill Griffin 21:08
This whole connection thing has come up more you mentioned parenthood, but I think Once somebody becomes a parent, it becomes more important on a different level. I also we've had many conversations, once you bring a child into a marriage or relationship, that relationship and that connection changes, right? Because now there's this whole other human being that requires our attention, and there's increased stress, there's hormones, there's already the obligations we were already doing, right and it's like finding our new equilibrium. Why do you think women report feeling unseen in motherhood?
Molly Bierman 21:55
Oh, God. Well, I think that we have a really good stat here that you know, that we're able to kind of share. So the University of Bath did a study saying mothers take on 71% of household mental load tasks, including planning, scheduling and organizing, while fathers manage 45% so the imbalance often leads to stress, burnout and strain on women's careers and relationships, I think that's the most objective perspective. I do think that for me, why? You know, I think I had this interaction last night. I was sitting at the dinner table, and I was just more relaxed and wasn't planning, and just was really, really tired and very, very spent from a long day. And because I wasn't elevated and operating at that higher level, and that, you know that higher functioning of your perfection planner, my perfectionism, my planning, my husband was very interested to see like, what was wrong with me, was I Okay? So I feel more, oddly enough, I think I feel a little bit more seen when I'm not operating in that space and when I am operating that in that space, that feels to be the norm for a lot of people in my life, right? So I don't know, it was just an interesting takeaway. And I said something. I said, you know, Hey, can I just like not be functioning at that rate? You're always actually a little annoyed that I'm functioning at that rate and now I'm not, and you're confused. So what about that level of functionality makes it feel comfortable and normal in our house? So again, there's these dances of, how do you restore How do you function at that rate? How do you make sure that there is that downtime. And I think that you had shared that a couple of episodes back, which was, your kids need to visually see you rest right so
Jill Griffin 24:17
well when we talk about connection, especially in a marriage, I know that I've definitely had conversations with my husband where he's like, can you just relax? And no, there are certain things that have to be done in order relax because but it goes back to this study, right? We are carrying a mental load. There's been plenty of this is just one of the studies I've seen these over the past couple of years, when we talk about the mental load, it's the planning the grocery list for the meals that are going to be made that week, planning the meals that we're going to eat, planning the the travel if there's travel plans for the family, packing up the family, if we're going somewhere, making sure all the doctors appointments are made, making sure that everyone's on their schedule for you. What they need in their bags, packed? What, what permission slips? What? Who has to be, where, who the child care? I mean, I can go on and on and on about all of the tasks that beyond running the businesses that I run, I'm also running the business of my household, which is all these tasks now, now I have a fantastic he would call himself an anomaly husband who does a lot of household tasks. However, the organization and the strategic planning of the family and who has to be where and what has to be done is directed by me still, like I hold the bag on that we talked about, like the camp, the stupid camp paperwork. It's like, I mean, these are the things that will really drive me insane, because if I'm not on top of it, no one else is, no one else is doing it.
Molly Bierman 25:51
So it had been jury duty escapade.
Jill Griffin 25:54
Yeah, I need certain things to be done in order to relax. And when you talk about connection, women and men connect very differently. Yeah, let's talk about it. Men can put aside whatever stress of the day. And if we're talking about physical intimacy and connection, which I think a lot of men, intimacy equals physical connection, I think, which it doesn't always there's many other forms of intimacy, but that can happen no matter what else is going on in their lives. There can be sex connection in terms of women, starts with the emotional connection, checking in with how I'm doing. Are you, oh, you're noticing I'm stressed? Are you asking why maybe I'm in this mood? Are you curious to know what's going on behind the scenes of why I'm maybe not operating at my highest right now, or are we just what's wrong? It's like, maybe nothing's wrong, but there's a lot going on that I'm maybe just processing. Or, yeah, it's just definitely been a dance in our household of one me communicating what my needs are. I think a lot of times it's thinking that people know what we need, especially spouses, who we've been with for a long time. We expect that they just know,
Molly Bierman 27:10
yeah, higher expectations, yeah. Basically the roadmap to being let down.
Jill Griffin 27:18
I also think that, you know, social media, phones, you know, connection with other people when we talk about marriages, and I've said this before, it's like I have connection with other people outside of my spouse that are equally as important as my marriage. And when I what I mean by that is different forms of connection give me different things that just for me.
Molly Bierman 27:41
Well, I think that could be a topic in and of itself, right? Where do we get filled up, outside of work, outside of our marriage, outside of our children, right? So where are you going?
Jill Griffin 27:51
Yeah, you can't have all different levels of connection. No, it's it's not. And if you all get,
Molly Bierman 27:57
yeah, there's a dependence that you are also putting on that person to fulfill a lot of areas of your life, which essentially they can't fulfill. And it just really fosters,
Jill Griffin 28:10
just an imbalance, actually,
Molly Bierman 28:11
well, I think it actually fosters disconnection, to be honest. You know, putting all your eggs into that one basket to try to have them fulfill all your needs, and it's an unrealistic expectation, you know, yeah,
Jill Griffin 28:26
going back to phones and social media, though I know, a recent study showed that Gen Z only 38% find in person interactions, or says That 38% find in person interactions boring, so that means that I can't do math that fast. I'm gonna be honest with you, so, but almost 4062, there we go. You're the math major, so, but that, to me, is startling. It's like so you'd rather be on your phone than be in person. We see this with young people. I mean, I don't know if you've seen this out in public, but you see like a group of young people, group of young people hanging out, and they're just all on their phones. Even our age, you go to a dinner and everyone's on their phones. It's like, why are we here? What are we doing?
Molly Bierman 29:12
It is such a charged topic a lot of the time, I think for me, because there is this level of me having a double standard at times, where if I'm on my phone, that's appropriate, if you're on your phone,
Jill Griffin 29:29
it's not get off your phone. I'm sorry, are you working while we're supposed to be eating dinner? Meanwhile, you did the same thing last night? Yes. Oh, totally. We get into some harsh arguments about the phone. So it definitely is another layer to the connection conversation, because what's happening is this artificial connection, especially social media, when you're looking at what other people are doing in their lives, it's artificial. Social because you think, Oh, I know what's I'm keeping in touch with people. I know what's going on. That's a highlight reel. You're not really
Molly Bierman 30:06
I don't feel that way. I definitely don't feel that way. If I'm seeing something on social media that's for my own entertainment, typically, it's not even people
Jill Griffin 30:14
that I know. That's how I use those correct but I'm just saying people in general, yeah, I think it's creating this false sense of connection for a lot of people, especially younger people, because they feel like, Oh, I'm connected and you're not, though you're having these, like, these very artificial communications with people online that you may or may not even know.
Molly Bierman 30:37
Well, listen, I think we could do a total, you know, another, another full episode, maybe with my business partner to talk about the implications of AI and the people who are having relationships with chat GPT, because that is the thing. And I know people are gonna listen to this and think I'm totally insane, but look up some articles. There was just an article The New York Times about a young adolescent,
Molly Bierman 31:04
yeah, oh yeah,
Molly Bierman 31:05
because of her, because of, you know, basically confronting chat, yes, his suicidal ideation to AI. So there are, you know, I know that may be hard for people to hear and know that AI is going to change how people connect. Already is in other countries, and the phone will become more and more a playground for folks to find false connection and an intimacy. So, you know, I think that there's also this element too to social media that you know, in order to, you know, when we talk about connection, is that you are looking at something where it feels more appealing to people when they see the grass is a bit greener on the other side, right? You're seeing dating shows. You know you're seeing these glamorous relationships, these glamorous families and everything is basically making you lean towards, oh, I don't have enough or I don't have enough connection, or my connection doesn't look that way, right? So it really lends itself to isolating you more and more, from pouring into that yourself and drawing and looking at, well, what's wrong with my current relationship, you know, or my current connections. So again, it really creates this false narrative that takes you away from how individuals get more connected.
Jill Griffin 32:45
One of the biggest challenges as a therapist is the loneliness factor. Is solving that for people in 2023 the Surgeon General came out with a report saying that we are currently in a loneliness epidemic. 36% of adults overall report feeling serious loneliness, 61% of young adults and 51% of mothers with young children. That is startling, being having why does that matter? The reason why it matters is that social isolation and loneliness actually increases your risk of heart disease, stroke, dementia, depression, anxiety and premature death. So compared to obesity and smoking, which is a huge issue in our country, loneliness is actually the number one risk factor for you dying early in your life, the longest study. And I'm going to misquote this because I don't know that I don't know the actual name of it, but the longest study that's ever been done, longitudinal study, which is across decades of people and what factors influenced how long they lived. The number one thing that influenced somebody's longevity in their life wasn't smoking, it wasn't what you ate, it wasn't what you exercise, it was how many social connections you had in your life.
Molly Bierman 34:04
So interesting.
Jill Griffin 34:06
So we are really I mean this for the Surgeon General to come out. And also in other countries, I know when we met with Justin, he had mentioned this. In other countries, they're doing something about this. It is a serious problem. And when I meet with clients, and I talk about their social connections and who you know, they may live with people, but they don't feel they're not seen in their own houses. They're not seen by their spouses, they're not seen by their partners or their parents, there's no real connection going on. And it's interesting, because I recently had a conversation with a parent, and I was like, Oh yeah, you know, school just started. I was like, oh yeah. Like, my daughter was telling me about x, y, z, and this is what's going on in school, and this and that and the other and this happened. And the parent was just kind of looking at me like, Oh, my daughter doesn't tell me any of that. Yeah. And to me, I was like, this is just par for the course. Part of it is because I'm interested in these things. I'm asking the conversation in Right, right? Yeah, it doesn't mean it's always easy. I get brushed off sometimes. I mean, she, she's 10, but there's like, a tween element there, and how? But you have to work at this connection. Is my point. I think if we just allow the phone, the iPad, the TV, whatever to just to take over the social connection piece versus like, having that connection with the people in your house. Do how many parents are do you meet with sometimes that don't even know what's going on with their own child in their own house. They don't know how much their child's struggling, and they live with them.
Molly Bierman 35:43
Well, we see that a ton. I mean, so, you know, I don't talk all that often about what my work is in in the day to day outside of the podcast. But, you know, I own a behavioral health consulting firm that essentially helps families reconnect. It's called yes family consulting, and we're a boutique firm that essentially helps families reconnect after ruptures, crisis challenges, just overall, how to engage with one another and look at the entire system. So when we really think about how to connect, that's really taught through the family system, and if your family system, intergenerationally, has struggled with that level of transparency, connection, invitation to having dialog, or having, you know, actually, a treatment center many years ago, did a really great marketing blitz that said, I hope I Don't misquote it, but it was something along the lines of talking about drugs over the dinner table, right? And it was a little, it was, it was kind of in your face and a bit catchy, right? And the purpose of that was to say, what are we talking about at the dinner table? Are we talking about how the weather was? Are we actually talking about the things that matter, the risks that are available to children, the challenges that they're having, the lack of courage they have in certain situations, the you know? And also talking about their wins, right? What is being celebrated? I loved when Megan Jarvis came on and she talked about celebrating her son and how upset she was that he didn't celebrate himself, right? So if we're not taught to celebrate one another, and we're not taught to be courageous, As Justin mentioned last week, or vulnerable, as many women share from that lens, then it really makes those things challenging. And so, you know, if you really want to have open dialog, you have to understand how to ask those open ended questions, and you really need to lay the groundwork and be the conduit for the other person. Right? They're not just if you are not opening that up, it is going to be hard for somebody to come to you with that information or those those challenges.
Jill Griffin 38:13
Do you? How does this translate into leadership and work for you? Like, can you show up as your your full self to work?
Molly Bierman 38:22
You know, I think I've had a hard time, you know, at periods of my life, but for the better part of the last decade, I feel pretty confident that I show up very similarly in all areas of my life, in friendship, in work, with family, almost to a fault, sometimes where I could ease off the gas a little bit at home or or in my, you know, in communication with my friends. I think a lot of that has to do with that whole problem solving mentality. And sometimes my friends or my partner or my children or my family or my siblings are not asking for that, right? And a lot of what I've had to do in a leadership role has been problem solving on any given day. If you want to be in leadership, you have to understand that that's primarily your role is to problem solve. And so I think that that has at times hindered my ability to connect in other areas, but being able to walk into a room and show up authentically and take up space and feel confident in that, I will say that at times, you know, in my life, that was more challenging. It hasn't been challenging in a, you know, like I said, probably in about, you know, I don't know, eight to 10 years ish,
Jill Griffin 39:48
well, I feel like there's definitely a thin line between showing up as your full self in a performative way. What I mean by that is kind of, you. Leaning in to connection with people in a false sense, where it's like, not really genuinely who you are, but you know that that's how to connect with other people. I mean, I think, like, sometimes in I don't know, I think certain roles, certain people are just better at this, where they can just, like, connect easily with people, but it's almost like, I don't know, I'm part of it. I want to say is, like a performance, like, you're not, you're not really interested in what's in connecting with this person, beyond whatever the you're getting out of the relationship. Like, that's, I think that's the difference between, like, genuine friends and work friends or acquaintances. And I've talked to people about this, I think our field's one of those things. But I think this goes to all fields where you're around the same people, probably in circles, and it's like, there's some people that I see often. I don't know that I would consider them friends, though.
Molly Bierman 40:58
Well, I think a couple things, right? When you think about friends, I actually saw an interview that Mel Robbins just did. She was top of mind for the last couple of days, and the woman she was interviewing saying that women actually turn over friends every seven years, and then immediately I was going to text you and be like, are we going to be okay
Molly Bierman 41:21
longer than seven years, but it has, it has. We've made it over the threshold, but there is this level,
Jill Griffin 41:27
seasons, season, yes,
Molly Bierman 41:29
so I really believe that if I'm in community with you, I can probably have a certain level of vulnerability. You know, I can remember, a couple weeks ago, I went to a breakfast, okay? And I went with my two neighbors who I know, but I don't, wouldn't say I know them on the level I know some of my other you know, close friends or friends in recovery. Because the reality is, is when you're in recovery from substances and alcohol.
Jill Griffin 42:03
You know way too much about some of these people. You
Molly Bierman 42:05
Yeah, you just like way more knowledge around
Jill Griffin 42:09
first time you meet somebody, you're like, Whoa. I didn't that's crazy, but it's not crazy when you're in recovery, you're just these stories are just flying all over the place. So it's like, we know each other in a different way.
Molly Bierman 42:21
And I think the best way to describe that is that over sharing is very normal in that setting, okay, very typical to talk about the gritty moments, right? Not having a place to live, being you know, at parties with people you didn't know, engaging in risky behaviors, all of those things are very status quo, especially in 12 step communities and around other the other individuals that are
Jill Griffin 42:51
recovering, that's how I show up as my full self at work is making obscure comments that reference my past. Okay, yeah, well, crack was fun. I mean, at one point, yeah, yeah.
Molly Bierman 43:06
And you're saying that in front of the medical director, and they're like, Well, what
Jill Griffin 43:11
are you okay? It's like, I am now, yeah.
Molly Bierman 43:14
So, so we think about that, though, and we think about that over share, which doesn't really feel like an over share in that setting. So a couple weeks ago, I go to breakfast with these two women, and these are the women who, you know, go to the country club and play tennis midday. And, you know, have had careers in their life as well, and now are stay at home moms, and that is also, subsequently their, you know, a career. We know that it takes a lot of work to be a stay at home mom, and so while their kids are at school, they're, you know, have coffee, have breakfast, whatever. I will tell you what happened in that moment was that I thought I was over sharing, and what actually was brought up was a level of connection and vulnerability between women who probably don't have that push all that frequently in their interactions. And so when I walked away, I started realizing that that ability to engage people and have them feel seen, heard and not judged and valued is actually my superpower, right, and that people will start to share things that then they'll text me later and say, I have no idea why I share that with you. That happened not that long ago with an ED consultant that I met with. She goes, I have no idea how I ended up sharing all that with you, right?
Jill Griffin 44:37
So that happens to me too, now that you say that, I there is some natural ability to make people feel seen and heard, to share these things. I my husband often. I, I have to tell him to not talk to people when we go places, because he'll just engage with everybody. I, I. I think he thinks I'm just kind of like a bitch and don't want to talk to people. But what I've realized over the years is, to protect my energy, I can't talk to people because they end up telling me things. It's like they it's like I have therapists written on my forehead, and I've talked to other therapists who have the same thing, but people, I'm talking grocery store attendants. I'm talking the waiter, the waitress. I mean, offering information. I don't why, what's happening here? I don't want to know this, and what am I supposed to do with this? Because I don't I'm trying to relax over here.
Molly Bierman 45:34
Well, one full circle moment, because when we really started out this episode, we thought that we weren't really doing that. Well, seems like
Jill Griffin 45:41
we are. Maybe we are. If we had our husbands on, I feel like there would be a discrepancy, though. I feel like there would.
Molly Bierman 45:49
I feel like we're thriving after, you know, we were able to come full circle here.
Jill Griffin 45:54
I think what we're hearing is we are healed. Yes, exactly, we're healed, and that's all everybody needs to know.
Molly Bierman 46:05
Yeah, that's pretty much it. I don't know if there's much else to talk about around this,
Jill Griffin 46:09
well, just some practical tools about how to be seen and help others feel seen. Ask better questions than how are you I think this goes back to the whole conversation with your children, right? What? How are how you're asking questions makes a difference. How was school today? Good? What are you going to get? What are you going to get out of that? What? What? So what I do a lot of times, what I do a lot of times, is
Molly Bierman 46:35
do specifically with my children, bring a little motivational interviewing into the
Jill Griffin 46:39
specifically with my kids, I will say what was your favorite thing about today, and then I'll usually do like, what was your worst part of the day, or what made you sad today, or what made you happy, or what were you proud of? I try to open the, you know, lines of communication. That way I get the best Intel and information from my kids before bed. That's when they want to spill the beans. So when my daughter told me this week that she has to practice being a big girl going to bed on her own as a fifth grader, I was like, probably not. Probably still going to come into your room and lay with you for a little bit, because I need that Intel, especially, especially now I'm going to need, especially this week, that information. I'm going to need that information.
Molly Bierman 47:21
Well, I will tell you that this is also a good takeaway for your leadership role. So if you are supervising individuals, what I will tell you, people will come into your office. You will supervise them. You will get little to no information. They will not come prepared. So in order, because they will expect you as the supervisor, to be the one pulling that information out. And so what I tended to do was say, Hey, tell me a little bit of what's going well. Tell me about a face down moment this week or this month, however frequently you're meeting with them that you really were able to, you know. So problem solve, find a solution to and where were the areas that you really struggled, that you got stuck and you needed support, you know, and who was that support from? So again, it opens up the dialog to not just give these one word answers. I mean, look, I'll tell you from my own experience as a young girl, right? I can count. I can vividly remember every conversation with my parents when I was really going through challenging times, and they would sit there and they would say, how are you? And I would say, I'm fine. That was my go to response. I will tell you that I was not fine. And so I didn't know how to articulate what was going on. I didn't know how to articulate the challenges. I didn't know
Jill Griffin 48:43
I knew the confidence somebody else, yeah, to say it to help.
Molly Bierman 48:47
And that's not just as a kid. That's not just as a kid, right? There are people who still don't know how to do that in their adult life, right, in the workplace, in their home life, in their marriage. You know, I just had the opportunity to show up for someone who's really struggling and trying to find out how they can walk with more of their voice, you know. So again, fine is not maybe we need to go to the feelings
Jill Griffin 49:14
wheel, and if you're accepting, yeah, if you're accepting fine as a response from a team member or a child, it's like, well, you may be a little bit in denial. Then, if you're really believing that things are just fine, probably not okay. Also, don't wait for perfect timing to share your truth. I'm guilty of this where I will mull over in my head how I'm gonna say something to somebody. I'll go to other people for I'll walk it through. I'll walk the tape through, and like, nine times out of 10, if I just said what I needed to say, instead of worrying about the other person's response or my response, or the person's response, or how, usually the fear is, how are they going to receive this? But if I just share my truth and. Are confident in that it's like, I I can take away all this time worrying and being anxious about it, versus like, this is an opportunity for connection and just kind of reframing it, which I've gotten a little bit better at more recently, just because I don't want to waste time anymore
Molly Bierman 50:19
asking, for, you know, connection when you have protected yourself and are trying to hide. You know, I think that you also have to be in tune with or at least I do. I have to be in tune when, what is it that I'm not receiving that I need? And Am I blocking myself off from that because I'm in fear, right? So check ins with yourself, right? Because the accountability really starts with you.
Jill Griffin 50:48
Practice honest listening and not fixing. We talked a lot about this today.
Molly Bierman 50:55
Yeah, that's my hard part. Yeah,
Jill Griffin 50:59
any other ones that you have, any other practical tools about being seen? And I also would, I guess I would also add communicating what your needs are like, what helps for you to be seen and feel seen. And sometimes that means sitting with yourself to figure that like what you just said, sitting with yourself and figuring that out first.
Molly Bierman 51:18
Yeah, I think when I really think about when I feel the most seen, observed, connected. It typically starts with me, how clear Am I, how present am I? And then am I able to understand that the love and the, you know, the other people in my life pouring into my cup, because a lot of that can be lost if I'm not aware, if I'm not paying attention, right? So again, I think it kind of goes back to if I stay in the victim mentality of people don't see me, I don't feel connected, I don't feel heard. That's a me problem, because I have not shared that. Yeah, I have not shared that. So I think when I feel truly seen, you know, it's really when I'm more content clear and grounded in my own values, in my own purpose and my own observations.
Molly Bierman 52:15
Totally,
Molly Bierman 52:18
what's up? You're taking the purpose today. You're taking the purpose today.
Jill Griffin 52:22
You totally I was trying to give it to you. The permission slip is to create a moment of connection with someone in your life. That's it. So you know, whether that's a child, a spouse, a co worker, you know, maybe it's someone that you want to take the relationship from an acquaintance to a friend, like, create a moment of connection, which really means, yeah, some vulnerability, and putting yourself out there and maybe saying, like, Hey, I'd like to be friends. You want to go grab coffee? Do you want to that is definitely a hard part about in motherhood, specifically, as your children get older, that part of that seven year stat that you gave with friends switching over, I believe, is Parenthood because your kids, you end up being friends with the your kids. Yeah, people in your kids like world, and that changes, right? Yeah, right. But it's like, so we used to say this all the time the recovery community, right about, about having a mentor or sponsor or somebody, right, like you're not it's going to be awkward. It's going to be like asking somebody, somebody out on a date. It's the same thing with a friend. It could be the same with a family member that you want to get closer with it could be the same as maybe an older child that you've grown distant from. Like, if you're trying to create connection, there's going to be an awkward moment where you're just going to have to put it out there and be like, Hey, I feel like we've drifted apart. I'd like to reconnect. Hey, I'm feeling alone. Do you mind hanging out heck? Like there's going to be a moment of vulnerability that's going to feel like I
Molly Bierman 54:02
don't want to do this, but the opposite isn't looking too hot, you
Jill Griffin 54:05
know? So no, it's not so and and so my that is my permission slip to create connection with someone
Molly Bierman 54:12
else this week. And I think too for those that may be listening that feel like they struggle with that, again, ability to write in to our email address, comment on the episode, DM us with your questions. This is not something that happens overnight for any of us, and we're happy to be a support and give you more tips and tricks along the way that have worked for us. Thanks for tuning in until next time.