Unbreakable: Motherhood, Resilience, and Breast Cancer with Jeanmarie Gaudrault

Oct 28

Episode 18 with Jeanmarie Gaudrault

Courage, challenge, and change come together in this powerful episode of No Permission Necessary. Jeanmarie Gaudrault, a board-certified behavior analyst, mother of three, and breast cancer survivor, sits down with hosts Molly Bierman and Jill Griffin to share her very personal story of resilience, belief, and healing.

Jeanmarie shares her story of overcoming breast cancer while pregnant, dealing with the treatment alongside a newborn, and remaining strong in supporting her family and herself. Together, they examine the value of self-advocacy, preventative care, and community during life's most trying times.

This episode is a heartfelt reminder that even in uncertainty, you can rise, heal, and keep loving deeply.

Molly Bierman 0:20
Okay. Welcome back to no permission necessary. My name is Molly Bierman, and I am here with my co host, Jill Griffin and a special guest today, Makhosi Nejeser. Makhozi Nejeser is the world's leading Apex consciousness master, a fully initiated African shaman, philosopher and leadership advisor. She possesses an undeniable ability to awaken the world's highest achievers from the sleep walk of success. The Royal Shaman leads those who are willing on intensely satisfying journey to the final frontier of limitless potential, timeless flow and spiritual authenticity. Welcome, Makhosi we're so excited to have you.
Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser 1:04
Thank you for having me. I'm really excited to see what comes up today. Us too.
Jill Griffin 1:10
I yeah, I am. I'm so excited that you're here. I asked you to be on here because most people probably don't know this, but I found you probably during covid as online at the Royal shaman on Instagram, and got really interested in the content you were putting out, a lot, a lot of stuff around leadership, but also this spiritual side of leadership and running business and stepping into your feminine And that really attracted me. I know Molly and I have had a lot of conversations around how we show up as leaders, and how that's different as a woman leading a business versus a man, and being in a male dominated industry where there's a lot of male leaders in our industry, and how we fit ourselves into that. So I was really happy to have you on because you have such a unique perspective that's changed my leadership style. And so let's talk about a little bit your name, the Royal shaman, and your story, because you have a fascinating story and background how you came to be.
Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser 2:18
Yeah, my my story has really been a lifetime of very interesting unfolding. So on one side, I feel like I was almost living two lives. So most of my childhood, I had this very like, more mystical, spiritual side to myself. One of my first businesses was reading Tarot in middle school to other kids trying to make some funds. But also I had this other side of me that was very goal oriented and high achieving. And I think that that part really came about because I grew up in small town, Southern West Virginia. I am biracial, and my mom was a single teen mom, so from a really young age, I had this idea of like, I'm not going to be a statistic. I'm going to make something of myself by any means necessary, and I have no hand eye coordination, so I knew it wasn't going to be sports. I Yes, and so I'm like, Well, I have a pretty good brain, so I'm gonna work that. There you go. There you go, Yeah, gotta use my I'm like, this I can work with so fast forward through through college, and I ended up thinking like, I'm gonna go to med school, because I had honestly no idea what I wanted to do. I just wanted to prove everyone wrong. And when I say everyone, there was no one really, that was like, you can't make it. It was just like these statistics that existed that became like my enemy, that I needed to prove
Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser 3:59
something they were written for you, essentially, right? Yeah, yeah,
Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser 4:03
yeah. It was like, this great that I was supposed to follow. And I was like, or get that script, yeah. So I ended up deciding, in my very last year not to go to medical school, and that really came about from the birth of my son, and I saw him just this, like beautiful bundle of boy. And I really struggled to get pregnant, and all I really wanted was to just be with him, and I could not imagine going to med school at that time, so I skipped med school, I ended up at Target, and then I ended up going the Business Route. I've always had some some form of business going since I was really young. Well, I was very blessed to become extremely successful in a very. Very short amount of time in my direct sales business. And when I had that experience, I realized, like, here I am. I was like, 24 got the tall, dark, handsome husband, the beautiful son, the fancy designer bags, the, you know, free trips to Vegas, the flights, the, you know, I was living what everyone said should make you happy at 24 and I was like, Wow, is this it? So I had a like, quarter life crisis at 2425 years old, and what was ignited in me was that other side of myself that I had mostly kept hidden, which was my more mystical side, but Also very deep in psychology and how consciousness works, and, and, and, and it took me on this journey of exploring like, who am I? What is our purpose here? Why do we exist? It can't be to, you know, just get married, have the baby and make the money there has to be something deeper. And it was that quest that ultimately landed me in what is called a mystery school initiation. It is the this school or this process of education that's really designed to help you deconstruct your programming from society and bring you back to your essence and the core of who you are. And it was a five year long journey, traveling back and forth to Africa. Ultimately, that landed me in South Africa, where I initiated to become what's called a sangoma, which is a Zulu Shaman. And they would, they would probably, now, at this point in my evolution, refer to me as what, what's called a Sanusi, more of the philosopher, societal healer, really also working with with leadership in elevating the way that we do life and bringing a new paradigm to in my case, I focus mostly on the business space and work with very visionary entrepreneurs who are really called to leave a different legacy to, you know, break those generational curses and create a new pathway forward for themselves their families and also transform their industry,
Molly Bierman 8:01
would you say, shifting the paradigm? Can you maybe break that down to the listeners who are maybe not as savvy in this arena, and share a little bit about what that means.
Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser 8:14
So all of us operate from a paradigm, both on an individual level and a collective level, like our society and humanity as a whole. So a paradigm is essentially the collection of systems, structures, beliefs, lenses on the world that shape how we see ourselves and also therefore shapes the decisions that we make. It shapes lit it touches everything. So my work at the consciousness level, or the paradigm level, is really about addressing the root cause of so many of our our challenges, so many of our issues. Like, yeah, I think anyone with two eyes would say we're not really living in harmony.
Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser 9:10
Do you think
Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser 9:13
we're not in harmony? Okay, most of us aren't in harmony with ourselves. Yeah, in our relationships in greater world, the greater world, like our relationship with time, is weird, yeah, so breaking down all of those systemic but also individual programming that makes us think, this is who I am, this is how things have to be, should be, need to be, and really questioning that and challenging it. And ultimately, what's birthed out of that, or what emerges, is what I call your essence. Right? The essence is this, this true self, who you are really destined to be, and how. Are destined to operate in this world and then supporting people in building a business and a life that actually reflects who they're here to be.
Molly Bierman 10:11
I mean, I think it's interesting too, because a lot of what I have learned through my own journey, my own growth, my own leadership style, is that most women, when they're born, you know, into this world, are raised with the idea of the Cinderella fairy tale, which you touched on right at the beginning, right? Is this all that it's supposed to be? Get married, find your Prince Charming. Get married, have a kid, right? And then maybe work. And so deconstructing that belief when it is so ingrained in our society tends to be a really big shift for people, right where it just feels a bit more comfortable to kind of stay in it, because it looks like everyone else is having the same experience. So what I'm hearing from you is you're actually saying you can have all those things right from what I understand, and what you're sharing is that you know you have a partner, you have a son, you have a career, you have you're educated, and you can still have a different type of experience that is rooted in your own spiritual journey and growth, and those two worlds can actually align, if I heard you accurately,
Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser 11:32
and not even just align. My perspective is that when it is aligned, when you actually allow for your business to be your spiritual practice, or your marriage to be a spiritual practice, or how you mother to be a spiritual practice, how you friend, right? When we actually make that, that integration in our life, that that is when the most seem, sometimes seemingly miraculous, but, yeah, absolutely incredible outcomes start to become real. And, you know, I say it's like, it's almost like magic happening in your everyday life.
Jill Griffin 12:19
Can you talk a little bit about, you know, that alignment with purpose, and give some examples of what, some signs of misalignment that you've seen working with leaders, maybe examples of your own life. But because I know some people are probably listening, like, hang on a second, like, how are these things in my life supposed to be spiritual? Yeah, I think Molly, and I understand that, right? We can see parts of that, but I do think there's people listening that that's not clicking for them. They're like, that's like, a separate thing. My we
Molly Bierman 12:49
may lose that thing. Hey, guys, just stay seated. Okay, don't turn it off just yet.
Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser 12:56
Okay. So I think that, well, we have to address some root issues there. Number one, we think that what is spiritual is simply the things that we do in order to create or connect with the divine right. We think go to church Sunday morning for this little bit of time. That's me being spiritual. And I would offer another perspective, and from a shamanic point of view, all of us carry a connection with the Divine inside, and that our purpose is not something we're here to do, but it is who we're here to be as an expression of divine. Okay, so what that means is every aspect of our life, then gets to be a laboratory of experimentation, where we are playing with what are all the different ways that I can express the divine from me, or where am I limiting myself in these spaces? What are the, you know, the challenges, the issues, the blocks that are coming up in my life, and seeing those as opportunities to evolve more into who we are truly here to be now that different perspective of purpose is so important because I had this turmoil when I was a kid, and maybe you all experienced this too, purpose felt like finding a needle in a haystack, yes, and it's Like if there's literally infinite things that I could do, how am I supposed to find this one thing that I'm supposed to do out of this haystack of possibilities? And I was like, That can't be right, that can't even be. What, what purpose is. And it meant that I could not be in purpose until I found that, and most likely, statistically, I have this little logic brain. I'm like, statistically, I'm never gonna find my purpose.
Molly Bierman 15:15
You know, I when you say that you're and this might get a go, a little, you know, down a new inroad here. But when you say that you centered in here, and I'm pointing to my brain, guys, for those of you listening, not watching, for those you know, when you're centered in your logical mind, and how to kind of get into your more aligned self, will say your more spiritual side, do you find that there's a lot of barriers for you? I mean, obviously you've been on this journey for a lot longer, but in the infancy stages, to allow that to be your barometer, rather than what your head was telling you, what were some of the struggles there? Because I think for women, you know you have this things like mom guilt, or you have, you know, this idea of what you should be doing for your career, but also balancing that with a child. So how did you find listening to Yeah, yeah, like you're the harmony listening to yourself in all areas, not just your logic, because you sound like a very logical person in some ways, you know?
Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser 16:23
Yeah, I'm gonna be so transparent. It was not an easy, automatic thing, because in my life, and also our society, glorifies logic.
Jill Griffin 16:37
Oh, I want a reason for everything we want, the reason
Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser 16:42
we want, the reason we want, the data. We want, the proof we want, you know, the thing that makes the most sense and we because all of it's because, you know, patriarchy, like we value men and the things associated with masculinity, at least what we think masculinity is, we value those things higher. So even us as women, we tend to over emphasize that aspect of us and find it more difficult sometimes, to drop down into our body, but the ancient world and even indigenous systems, even now hold the perspective that, like the magic is in the body, that the body itself is a portal to This connection with the Divine. It doesn't come through mind and the thought. It's why dancing is such a a huge component, because it's, it's a way that you can completely drop the ego, and it's very hard to think when you are, you know, dancing very hard, and you're in your body, right? I think I want to go to being able to tell the difference. So with a lot of my clients, I do what's called an energy audit. And the energy audit is a practice where you start to get into in tune with what is happening in your energy, as you are existing, as you are living, right? So most of us plan our day from our head. We think these are the things that I should get done. These are the things I have to get done to be a good mom, to be a, you know, to go to the next level, blah, blah, blah, and we put those on our calendar. But the energy audit is all about being able to tap in and feel in your in your being, what's happening with your energy as you are doing different tasks, and part of that is understanding that there are there are things that you do, that you spend time on, that give you life, okay, that When you do them, you lose track of time, so time either slows down or it feels like it's speeding up or like it doesn't exist at all. That's a sign of probably some alignment. There flow, right? And also, you notice that when you are doing the things that you are most aligned to you get energy from them, right? Or you get a sense of peace, a sense of satisfaction, a sense of joy in the process, not because of some outcome. You know the you know, 10,000 followers or. A, you know, a job well done with 18 pieces of content made right? It's actually, while I'm in the process, while I'm in the journey, I am able to be present. I can feel the energy just flowing through me. And those are the things that we want to be doing more of, Okay. Those are the things that we need to strategize around. How do I make more of my life? Those things right? And also on the flip side, paying attention to, okay, what's draining your energy, I'll give you a real life example. For the longest time, I had so much judgment of myself around what I thought made a good mom, quote, unquote. Okay, in my mind, a good mom made sure that her house was spotless clean all the time, and she did that herself, okay, and I would spend every single week, I'm not kidding you, when I actually did the energy audit, I was spending between six and eight hours a week cleaning. And every time I was cleaning, it was taking more energy to force myself. I was having to, like, make myself clean, and it would completely drain my energy. I would have nothing else to give. See, we think that that energy is finite, that if I spend six hours doing this, that it's the same as six hours doing that, but it is not at all. Because if you're doing six hours on the things that are really draining you, and you're doing that all the time, your energy is being decreased and you don't have it to give an overflow to other areas. Whereas I know you've had this experience where, if you spend heck, two hours on something that's in flow, you can accomplish like, 10 hours worth in that zone versus in the other right? And so this is a process of becoming aware of your energy and then starting to realign how you are living, how you are doing business with, who you are really like who you actually
Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser 22:44
were born to be.
Jill Griffin 22:46
I mean, that's made a huge difference in my practice, because that's something that I've done. You know, in some work with you and your containers, like doing that energy audit does make a difference when you sit down, day by day, week by week, just checking in with yourself. How do I feel after this? Because I can tell you, and I've had these conversations with other people too, around when I'm speaking or doing a training or, you know, on a stage somewhere, and there's people I you feel energized. It's like the time goes by like that. You don't, it's almost like you don't even you're present, but then you don't also even remember being there, because it goes by so quickly, and you feel like, lit up afterwards. I feel energized. I feel like, Oh, I could do that again right now. No problem. Whereas somebody that, there's probably other people that have the opposite experience, or they come off, they have to go lay down for the rest of the day, yeah, right. Like, that's, that is not in flow with them. That's maybe not what they're supposed to be doing. And and i What kind of came up when you were talking is this idea of something being good versus bad for you, or good versus bad to society to you? Know? You said, what a good mother is, right? And I think we all have these ideas of what a good leader is, and there are some just objective things that could make you a bad leader or good leader, right, that we could probably all agree on. But also there's this part where, if you're stepping into your purpose as a leader, as a business owner, there are things that I do very differently than Molly does, or that you would do, or that any right, and it's tapping into what our own style is and our purpose. Because I what I'm what I hear you saying, what I've learned from you a lot is like my purpose in being a business owner may be different than Molly's, even though we're in the same industry, even though we're both female owned female entrepreneurs, like our purpose may still be different.
Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser 24:50
Yeah, I think, I think the biggest issue for most of us is that we have these very limited boxes. Idea of what a person should be right, that should that should right. We're shooting all over ourselves, our idea of like a leader. We have to examine, where does that come from, and I'll tell you, most of our ideas about what makes a good leader are rooted in control. Are rooted in disempowerment. Like, if we're gonna be we gotta talk about some uncomfortable things in this country, it's also rooted in, like, the enslavement of others. And I don't just mean black people. I mean in general, we have this perception of this hierarchy and leadership is rooted in the control of the people who are below you in perception, right? And we have to be honest. Does that make for the most
Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser 26:08
enjoyable,
Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser 26:10
expansive, evolving environment? No, and we all have different styles. We all have different, different gifts. And the most important piece of it starts with you, the way that we change how we see value, like the value of what makes a leader, right, starts with individual people, saying, This is how I lead, this is who I am. Maybe my my style is really rooted in listening, right? Maybe I'm an introvert. I am technically an introvert, and my style is based in a lot of listening. Well, it starts with me valuing that trait, that way of being enough to beat it, to express it, to build my teams around that, to, you know, put systems in place that allow for me to be in my best in that way, and then more people get to experience that, but we're all basically like trying to be these very rigid boxes of, you know, the definition of of what we think something is. And often that's not even those characteristics aren't even the most beneficial for the work that we're doing or for the relationships. Like my perspective, especially when it comes to leadership, is and this is why I think I'm gonna say something controversial. I think that women make the best leaders because we said it too, you're in good company. I think that women really do make not all women, obviously. And I'm not saying anything against men who are great leaders, but often why women make the best leaders is because we are excellent at curating environments that allow for growth, and then that allows for people, our teams, our customers, et cetera, to be in their sovereignty to Choose what potential of theirs they want to grow, versus us controlling them, saying, This is what I need you to be. We create the standard, we create the environment, and we invite them into that, but they still have the choice of whether they want to involve in that way, or they want to do things in their own way, and on and on. Well, I think you
Molly Bierman 29:09
you bring up a couple points that have been important to me in my life, which is that we tend to 100% put ourselves in these rigid boxes. So when we're building a business, or we're going through a growth period, or we're going through a transition, usually the number one factor that prevents anyone from taking the risk or trying something new or pivoting to a different direction is a level of fear, right? That's been my experience, and that fear tends to really become a snowball effect where it just keeps going and going, and now you've projected this really big belief of what's going to take place that started with a very like minute fear. But unfortunately, we tend to want these crystal. Falls, right? And we want to know exactly what it's going to turn out to be like, and how the risk is going to end up, and where I'm going to skin my knees, or where I'm going to trip and fall. And so I think that leads me into the question for you, which is, when we're building, when we're taking risk, when we're leaning into some level of discomfort, what would you say would be the biggest misconceptions that women have about their success and their fulfillment, where the pitfalls, where have been your own pitfalls in that way? I think that would be really helpful for for me to hear, and I think essentially others as well.
Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser 30:41
Oh, my goodness. Well, there's so so so many that we could really dive into. But I think that one of the biggest issues that keeps women specifically, I mean, it holds the majority of women back from the fullest possibility, like how big they can really grow something, or the limits to how much they can be seen, And, and, and is it's going to sound so strange, but it is actually really connected to our fear of how we're gonna be perceived and what it means for our relationships. I don't think that sounds strange. I don't
Jill Griffin 31:35
think that sounds strange at
Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser 31:37
all. I think that's very
Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser 31:39
accurate. Yes. So for most of us, we're taught to see things in a really compartmental way, where we think, oh, you know, if I keep hitting the ceiling in my business, then it has to be a business issue. And we are not compartmental beings. We are holistic beings, and different aspects of our lives are affecting each other, and for women, specifically, so much of our identity because of how we're programmed as little girls, is rooted in our relation to other people and how other people see us? Do they see me as greedy? I don't want to seem greedy. Oh, I don't want to seem high maintenance. I don't want to see seem stuck up. That one was a big one for me. I don't want to seem stuck up or, Oh, is my husband gonna not want to be with me anymore because I'm making more money than him, right?
Jill Griffin 32:39
That's a real one. And it's becoming talked about that, yeah, yeah, it's a real one.
Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser 32:47
It's a real one. It's a very I'm not and I'm not gonna say it's not rooted in reality, because, for sure, as you go out there, there's data like, divorces do increase. Um, men are really challenged with their own identity, because their whole purpose and sense of identity is rooted on their ability to, quote, unquote, provide and that equals make more money to them. So these are not, like, made up things that are just happening in your mind. However, we also need to understand that we have the ability to approach things in a way that allows for us to experience what we want and also navigate those relationships that we either already have or that we want to have, but it does often boil down to navigating our ability to have our own Identity.
Molly Bierman 34:00
How did that rub up in your own relationship?
Unknown Speaker 34:03
Oh, my, my marriage almost ended.
Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser 34:09
My marriage. Yeah,
Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser 34:13
I've been with my husband. We've been together since 2009 so, you know, 16 years together, but there was a period of probably two years in our marriage where I was like, I don't know if we're going to make it, because when I stopped decenter, like, when I stopped centering him as the thing that gave me value, like being his being a wife as the thing that gave me value, or being a mother as the thing that gave me value, and started to find myself in other ways, that amount of change, just the change itself, really. He made him afraid, because he's like, you're changing so quickly. I don't even know who you are. Who are you going to become? Are you changing in a direction that is, you know, separate than me and all of those were, you know, very rooted in reality. I was changing, and changes the thing like Human Sphere change more than anything, more than anything. We hate change, but it's the one thing that is always happening,
Jill Griffin 35:34
like the one constant is change. It's so bizarre.
Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser 35:41
And so when I was able to instead focus, instead of focusing on who I thought I had to be in the relationship in order for the relationship to stay good, I started inviting him to share what what he needed for himself, and also from the relationship, okay, and I realized, at least for our relationship, I won't tell anyone else What to do with theirs, but he despite how successful I was or how much money I made or whatever, there needed to be room for him in our relationship and in our home, we have often gone the other direction of like, I absolutely don't need You. I can do everything myself, and we don't leave room for for a
Jill Griffin 36:44
partner, right? Is this sounding so familiar right now?
Molly Bierman 36:49
Chills out a week, she is out a week. Like I have a girlfriend. I have a girlfriend who was really struggling in her relationship, and she started low key reading how to be a single mom. On the
Jill Griffin 37:04
side, the friend is not made. I just want to say that. I just want to make that very clear. I have been very clear that single motherhood is not my purpose in life. I saved my husband's life so that that didn't have to come true. I can't do this alone. I just want to put that out in there.
Molly Bierman 37:23
So true, like there are these subtle moments where, and I'm being a little bit, you know, silly in that way. And there is a very clear distinction that the evolution of a woman and transforming from wanting the husband to getting the husband, to having the kid, to getting the career to all those changes like we are different at every season of that life, we change right? And if we're not in community with our partners, male, female, whatever that's, you know, irrespective of what we're talking about. But if we're not in community with our partners, I think the challenge is exactly what you said, because you which is, is there room for me? That's the question happening on the other side. And, you know, I think of the mindset, well, then you need to speak up, right? Like, there's this level of like, speak up and say that. And then what you're bringing me to is a little bit more softness about it, because you are healed. Okay? We have healed on the show. It is not Jill or I, just to be clear, and I'm looking at you being like, oh, that sounds so inviting, the way you just said that. I do not say it
Jill Griffin 38:50
like that. That approach never crossed my mind, actually.
Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser 38:57
So my perspective, really, I love that you use the term community because we often don't think about our relationships in terms of community and right? But it is, and what actually makes a community work, whether it is your family, right, like the people living in your home, and also the people you are related to that maybe you interact with regularly, but also you can think of your team as a community, your actual community as a community, right? What makes the community work is that everyone has a place. Everyone has some sense of meaning in in the group or in the in the partnership, and when we go about like trying to fill all the gaps ourselves and not leaving room for the other person to be who they. Really are. And I'm saying it that way very specifically, because I don't, I also don't prescribe the idea that, like, there's a specific role that the that the you know, more masculine partner has to take, and that looks like taking out the trash and and, and, and doesn't have to be that way, but it does require that the two people or the community be really honest about you know, who am I here to be? What is it that I can bring like, for example, in my relationship, I my husband is very risk averse. Okay? He is very like, I need consistent amount of money in the bank, consistent amount of money coming in every single month. Like, that's what I need for me. I'm, I'm like, let's, let's do big stuff. Let's blow the doors off, yeah, let's make it happen, right? And so there are specific things with money, for example, that my husband will oversee when it comes to, like, big investments that's going to be something that I oversee in our relationship. And so I would also encourage you and or anyone else, like when you know someone you often know, you know them right. Like, yes, we want to be in communication, and we want them to speak up and and, and I always come back to this example of whenever my son was younger, my husband was traveling a lot, and he's in construction, so he's an electrical contractor, and he would be gone for, you know, a week, two weeks at a time. And every time he would come home, there would be a little list of, you know, little projects that were existing at home, you know that honey do list? And he would look at the honey do list, and one time, he goes, Listen, I know that you actually like my mom was a single mom, so I knew how to do a lot. She taught me a lot. He's like, I know that you know how to do this stuff. So why is it that you're assigning it? And I was like, Listen, you are watching me, like, take care of everything at home. I'm like, meal prepping so that he would have food to go out of state. Like, I'm homeschooling, I'm running my business. I'm like, doing all the things. And I was like, and I want you to know that there is room for you at home, that there is something here, that is space for you, that we need you here. And he goes, Oh, so it wasn't about me, like, forcing or nagging or making him do any of those things, but it was a demonstration in like, yeah, I can, I can do a lot, but
Jill Griffin 43:14
you're part of this community.
Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser 43:15
I didn't sign up to just be, you know, babysitting partner like that, doesn't contribute anything other than money. And you know what?
Molly Bierman 43:36
I think it's really true. You know, even when we build teams, right when we think about building like a business, okay? And currently, in the climate that I, you know, I'm in, I'm in a what I would say, it's still a startup, new business that you know, gratefully, is doing extremely well, and the people that tend to want to work with us essentially, be in our ether, be in our community. They bring when I'm when I'm having a conversation with them, I'm asking, what is your most passionate qualities, right? What do you want? You know? What type of client Do you want to work with? Because we're people facing right? And so what we find is that they really enjoy working with us because they're doing what they're passionate about. So my biggest takeaway when you were just sharing about your relationship is maybe having conversation with your significant other, your boss, your co workers, whoever it is in your community, and start to kind of share, well, what is it that you're passionate about that you want to do? Right? Even going down to, you know, no, do people want to take out the trash? No, I don't think anyone feels passionate about that. But there may be one person who feels more, Oh, I feel fine about it, and the other person feels like, No, there's no way I really want to do that. I'd rather do X, right? And so what you just showed was this paradigm shift, and I think that goes back to the initial, you know, part of the podcast, which is when we're looking at a moment in time, how are we showing up and inviting that conversation in with the other person and acknowledging the time and space that they want to dedicate to, right? And if we're not acknowledging that in the workspace, we're definitely not acknowledging that at home, because home feels very built in. It feels very consistent. It feels like we can not tend to it, and it will still be there, let's be honest. And when we start to really maybe tend to that area, or tend to the area of the business, what happens is, just like you said, there's that alignment, there's that freedom, there's that energy shift where it doesn't feel as grueling and as much of a chore.
Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser 46:01
Yeah, I'll also just add the one of the biggest mistakes that I see women make is we, you know, we never want to be a bother. We don't want to be a bother. We don't want to, you know, be we want people to know that we're grateful. So, one of the biggest mistakes I see that women make in this exact context is they look at all of the things that they find enjoyable in the business, and those are, like the first those are the things that they give away. Those are the things that their leisure say, yeah. They go, Oh, well, no one would want to, like, no one would want to take out the trash. So I'm just going to do it right. But in the business, no one would want to answer the phones, so I'm just going to do it, and then they end up in the business giving away all of the things that actually gave them energy. And before you know it, you're in the business everybody else because you didn't, you didn't invite people to share like what it is that share the load really want to be doing or that they want to be responsible for. I love the perspective of what everything shifted in my life when I made things more about being responsible versus having to do it. So in my home, there are things I'm responsible for, but I'm not doing it like I'm responsible for making sure that the house gets cleaned. But I'm currently not doing it same, okay,
Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser 47:32
like I might name invite,
Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser 47:35
okay,
Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser 47:37
same thing in the business people might want to be responsible for things that they aren't even necessarily doing, but they, you know, bring ideas about automation to do it, or they bring, you know, go, Hey, can I have, like, this little budget to hire, you know, someone on Upwork to help get this project done or whatever, but the fastest way to limit your business and also build up a lot of resentment is to just go about giving everyone the things that you actually got into business to do.
Molly Bierman 48:16
Yes, it's so interesting you say that because I'm literally just in the midst of saying I can't do all these things, and I'm strategically starting to offload the things that I don't feel passionate about doing right or that doesn't need my touch in doing. And, you know, I think that that's something that Jill and I have talked a lot about, you know, in terms of what does give us fulfillment, what does make us feel aligned in our business? And then, what are the things that other individuals can have an opportunity at doing can help them grow doing again, if you're not raising other people up simultaneously, you know, what are we really doing this for? Right? We want to make sure that people have the avenue to grow and find their own, you know, find their own center, find their own passion, find their own purpose. And that's, you know, that's the beauty of being in business, is that you really get to have that experience with other individuals, you know, and community. So I Jill Do you have a you want to go off the next question? I feel like, well,
Jill Griffin 49:26
I was just gonna, I was just gonna ask about, what are some things that you do? We talked a lot about dropping in from the logical brain to your, you know, your body and how that connects spiritually. But what are some things that you do to connect to the Divine or to your you know to that connection, what that looks like. I know that Molly and I both have a recovery background. We've talked about spirituality in different episodes and kind of what that means and some of our practices. I. Yeah, but I think it means different things to different people, so I'd be interested to know, like, what you do on a regular basis to kind of center yourself and signs that like you need to practice certain things, because maybe you are out of alignment, what that looks like.
Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser 50:16
Yeah. I twerk. I listen. You asked the board,
Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser 50:29
would be a lot better
Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser 50:31
if more women were twerking
Jill Griffin 50:34
more? There we go. She said, it, I need more
Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser 50:37
clarity on this twerk class.
Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser 50:41
I've actually taught workshops before. I need to come to one. I have, I haven't done her in a while. It's been, like, probably four or five years since I did one. But okay, there's actually, like, a spiritual technology behind what what I'm saying. Also, I will say psychology is now finally catching up that dance
Molly Bierman 51:04
Yeah is like the most effective medicine to move energy through your body.
Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser 51:11
One 2% overcome depression, yeah, work through anxiety to it's essentially to help you come into alignment many of these things that we experience from a spiritual perspective is a symptom of being out of alignment, because we are either over indexing on the mind, or we are not allowing ourselves to connect with the things that give us joy enough, Maybe we have judgment like you know, we are constantly focused on the thing that makes us money, and we don't do the things that actually give us life, because they don't make us money.
Jill Griffin 51:51
That's a real thing. That's,
Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser 51:53
yeah, people are doing that, and also falling into the trap of, well, if I want to do that, then I have to monetize it. And then for some activities, it actually
Jill Griffin 52:03
becomes not joyful, right? Then
Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser 52:05
it's like, it just kills it. It's why I don't, I have actually danced as, like a professional entertainer as a when I was a teenager, I worked for a DJ company, and I was basically like a hype dancer situation. But I don't, I'm not like a professional, professionally trained dancer,
Jill Griffin 52:26
so I know when you start working for money that that's you are out of alignment. We're gonna
Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser 52:33
I'm not saying that, being that, right?
Jill Griffin 52:37
If you start monetizing it, it's like, maybe
Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser 52:41
it's not. I do sometimes integrate it in, like a retreat, though, so that does happen.
Jill Griffin 52:48
But twerk so what's the spiritual connection? The spiritual
Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser
grounded and connecting with the Earth, especially if you put your bare feet on the ground. Even better, and it's the movement of the hips, so not just working. It could also be belly dancing. It can be, you know, anything that's like, really in your body helps with that. And so many women like we are holding a lot of a lot of trauma, a lot of our emotion, our leftover energy in the hips and moving them to me, from my perspective, is more powerful than meditation, especially for women like I think that meditation can be very helpful, can be very beneficial, especially for men, but I personally find that women need to, need to move and be moving regularly and from a place of joy, not forcing the movement so that can look like, you know, It doesn't have to be at this, like, choreographed thing that you're doing that dropping into the body, moving the hips, can actually start to awaken the spirit in you.
Jill Griffin 54:37
Well, you hear, you hear a lot of times, though, women doing yoga, or some like hip work. But I bring yoga up because I've heard several women tell me about this, where they start crying during when they're doing hip work, when they're breathing through a lot of times, I find it it's when you're in certain poses where you're holding it. Around your hips, stuff with your hips, yup, which from as a trauma therapist, when you talk about, you know, Vander kolk's work around the body, keeps score and all these things, I mean, there is, you know, you want the data and the research. Well, there's a ton of data and research around women and trauma and where we hold that, and how disease and all that stuff happens to our feminine parts, like, that's where we hold the trauma, and it manifests in these ways. So what you're saying, it's one of those things where the feminine kind of logic, I'll say, in the spiritual realm, is like some of these things, well, how does a plus b equals c, and it's like, but we have the evidence. You know, I think in as a trauma therapist, I just came from a really big conference where we talked a lot about this, it's like, we want all the evidence of, like, why these things matter. And it's like, but we have enough anecdotal even if it's just from the if you look way back in ancient times where some of these rituals started. There's a reason why they did it, and they didn't need the research for it, and they didn't need wellness and all the data, right? They did it because it felt good, and they felt good afterwards. And it made sense.
Molly Bierman 56:13
Well, I would go one step further into just saying, explore it, right? If you do this a few times, right, dance a few times in your kitchen or in your bathroom or wherever it is. Right? If you feel you know confused about doing it in a setting with your partner or anybody else in the home, and start to see like, do you feel 1% better than you did before? Right? We're asking for subtle shifts in your body and in your energy to be able to show up a little bit differently, right? So, I mean, I'm a big supporter of it. I should be 100% doing it more. And I, you know, competed in dance most my life. And I will tell you when I think about connection and community, and I think about the strongest connection in community I had in my life was with the women that I danced with, still to this day, 20 years later, yeah, and it's not because, it was because we moved energy, yes, period, together,
Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser 57:17
community, even amongst you know People that you don't know, yeah, one of the fastest ways to to build connection is, is through moving together. Is through, you know, actually doing something together that allows you to just, just drop in, drop into your body. And you know, for most of us, because we are, like, afraid of, well, do I am I on beat? Do I Look Do I look weird? Some of my favorite dancers are people who just are terrible dancers,
Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser 57:53
but we're just, like, they own it.
Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser 57:56
Like, yes, that's what I want to see. So I think it's about to your point, like, give yourself permission to experiment. Yes, our whole guys like and play. The other thing that for me is a big one is like, I go, I sing. And sometimes, well, I have an issue right now where I've been like binge singing, which is not good. But to your to your question, Jill about, you know, when do you know that you're not in alignment, right? You know that you're not in alignment when you are consistently, most of the time, either living in the past, so spending your time in remembrance about things that happened in the past or constantly in the Future, constantly ruminating, worrying, strategizing, etc, about the future and very little of your time actually being here, like literally being in this moment, I would say that most people are probably not in alignment. The other piece is, if you notice a difficulty being your true self, so noticing in like in what areas you are struggling with being yourself, another area is paying attention to your Energy, right? How much of your your day are you spending in activities, in things that are constantly draining your energy? And are there other ways that you can make space for the things that give you energy, even if they aren't like if there's not. An immediate ROI, well, I'm going to do that thing, and I'm going to make
Unknown Speaker 1:00:05
$1,000 right?
Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser 1:00:07
It's
Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser 1:00:08
a much more subtle thing, but most of us, when we if we just take a minute to sit and be with ourselves in a short time, five minutes, 10 minutes, and we just ask, where do I feel misaligned? Where do I feel like I am having to force things to happen? Where am I constantly pouring energy in? But it doesn't feel like I'm getting a an equal amount of energy exchange back, and most of us will pretty quickly be able to tell where we're misaligned. We know most of us know most of us are just like in denial, right?
Jill Griffin 1:00:59
That makes sense.
Molly Bierman 1:01:00
Well, going back to because each each week, on each episode, we do give a permission slip. So going back to your permission slip, if you want to just give it to the listeners one more time so they can really soak it up. What would you again? It's a suggestion, it's permission. It's allowing people to keep it top of mind, what would you want to provide to the listeners?
Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser 1:01:26
I think the permission slip that is most important is to see your life as a laboratory of experimentation, that you can question, that you can challenge the ways that you're doing things, the way that you see yourself, the way that you think things should be or have to be, and experiment with what would it look like if I allowed myself to be this other side of me. What would it look like if I allowed my marriage to look like this perhaps unconventional way and be open to the fact that certain things might actually be aligned for you that are not the pre prescribed box that you're supposed to fit in, and that When you allow your life to reflect that really incredible things can happen.
Jill Griffin 1:02:47
I love that. Thank you. Well, this has been great. And where can everybody find you? I know you're on Instagram. I mentioned that in the beginning, but anywhere else you want to mention?
Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser 1:02:58
Yeah, so these days I am, of course, on Instagram at the Royal shaman, and my podcast, which is currently euphoric evolution, there will probably be a rebrand coming soon, because I'm leaning more in the conscious business space. And I'm going to be honest, I'm in a phase of gatekeeping, so I'm going to be putting less out publicly and more behind the scenes, so you can also join my email list, which is like the primary way to get information from me on my website at theRoyalshaman.com
Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser 1:03:37
thank you so much. Wonderful hearing you, and hopefully we'll see you again soon. Thanks so
Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser 1:03:42
much. Thank you