Out of Office, Into Ourselves
Episode 4 with Jill and Molly
After a whirlwind of travel, tantrums, and team texts, Molly and Jill are back—slightly sunburned and spiritually recalibrated. In this episode of No Permission Necessary, they unpack what vacation actually looks like when you're a mom, a leader, and an entrepreneur.
From cruise ship chaos and car ride conference calls to reclaiming morning routines and enforcing PTO boundaries, the duo explores why stepping away is often the key to stepping into more intentional leadership. With candid stories, hard-earned hacks, and a few unhinged voice notes along the way, this episode is a real-time reflection on how to build businesses and lives that make space for rest, joy, and personal accountability.
Because growth doesn’t pause when you take PTO—it just sometimes wears flip-flops.
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All right, welcome back to no permission necessary. We're here to remind you that you don't need permission to lead, to speak or to take up space. Molly. Who are you?
Unknown Speaker 4:17
Molly? Dearman, I am. We're
Jill Griffin 4:21
starting over. So after I after I say, I know you don't need one. You don't need one. After I say, after I say that line you're gonna say, I'm Molly beer. Like, introduce yourself, introduce myself. Got it restarting. We're Take two. Take two.
Molly Bierman 4:39
Little more energy. I think you need more energy. Tough.
Jill Griffin 4:44
Okay, okay, welcome to no permission necessary. We are here to remind you you don't need permission to speak, to lead or to take up space. I'm Molly Berman and I'm Jill Griffin, and today I'm putting Molly in the hot seat. Molly. Co host, a friend, woman who has built her voice through recovery, leadership, being relentless, which has been the word of the month for you. We love that. So we're diving, we love that. We're diving deep into what it means to take the biggest risk of your life starting this podcast, all of the things that's true.
Molly Bierman 5:23
I mean, I think I've taken a lot of big risks in my life, but this podcast has been a long time brewing, and we talked about it when I interviewed last week. Interviewed you last week. Yeah, it's putting yourself out there with no almost feels like with no guardrails, right?
Jill Griffin 5:42
We're just out here. We're out here. Just we're out here. Well, let's talk about it a little bit like, what? Tell me a little bit about what led you to this moment. Like, who is the woman standing here today? And what's there's so many things. It's been a long journey, but tell us a little bit about you.
Molly Bierman 6:01
God, where do I start? I mean, you know, my journey starts pretty much finding my confidence and my voice through my recovery. So I think that's the biggest thing. I think, I think, you know, we talked a little bit about this last week, like making myself small to kind of meet other people's energy, and finding that I was maybe like hiding from what I really was drawn to or attracted to, or had goals of doing, because I felt like either I couldn't get there or I didn't have the people, the right people around me to kind of raise me up, not to kind of raise me up, to raise me up. And so I think time takes time. I know that sounds a little cliche, but you know my age, as I started older, and I started to feel more confident in myself, and I became a mom and, you know, all the different journeys that I've traveled, I think a lot of people, when they talk to me and hear about my story, they're like, you lived so many different lives, right from career to sobriety to I've lived in multiple Different states for multiple different years. You know, I've had different relationships, marriage, children, right? So in what feels like a really long time, but in the grand scheme of things, is a short 37 years, life has looked so different in every season. And I felt, I mean, that's something really to like, put a, you know, put a voice to it.
Jill Griffin 7:48
Yeah. I mean, that's where we have a lot in common, right? Where, when we say this all the time, our past, like, pre sobriety and now a completely different life. Like that person is a different it's still inside of us. But like that is you look back, and I think I was just talking about this with somebody today. You people knowing us now don't realize what we've been through to get to where we are now. And I think that's part of the voice, right, is sharing that you can go through stuff and be in a really tough place that looks like there's no kind of escape route. Yeah, and you can rise up. You can get to wherever you beyond your wildest dreams, like wherever that point is, where you're like, I could never get there. You can like, I think we're both proof of that. What's something about your recovery journey that people would never guess unless they really knew you, or maybe even the people that really know you wouldn't guess.
Molly Bierman 8:49
Oh, Lord, I was really bottom of the barrel. I think the people that don't know me and haven't heard my story, I really had to exhaust all options before I was willing to get sober, and so that meant a variety of different things, living in, you know, my mom says living in squalor. I mean, that's a really, kind of accurate statement, and really being stubborn and connected to the relief that alcohol and substances provided for me, and not fearing so deeply of how it could look on the other side, right? So I think that, you know, to kind of sum that up, I think people look at me and they're like, oh, maybe she had a problem with alcohol, or maybe it was, like, a couple too many drinks.
Jill Griffin 9:44
Or maybe it was cutesy, yeah, dancing on bars, you know, yeah?
Molly Bierman 9:48
Well, there was some of that, but it never, it never ended. Well, I mean, so no, it was pretty, you know, it was, it was lonely. It was really dark. It was around individuals that. You know, I wouldn't say that I wasn't supposed to quote, be around because I was around them. So I essentially was you were around, yeah, those people, because I was those people, but I think it was more so, yeah, that dark, isolating place that is no longer fun, really, was where I got stuck. You know? I didn't get stuck in the glitz and the glamor of drinking, right? I got stuck in the darkness of drinking. Yeah, right.
Jill Griffin 10:37
What would you say is the biggest lesson for you and I, there's so many, but choose one of recovery.
Molly Bierman 10:48
I mean, what really comes to heart, like, as soon as you said that is the only path forward is consistency. I was just talking to somebody about this the other day. I mean that that word consistency is so crucial for me in all areas of my life, but started in my recovery, right? The simple things, like, I think there's a like, a YouTube video or a little documentary about making your bed, right? I don't know what the name of the title is. You probably know, I don't know what it
Jill Griffin 11:21
is, but the idea I don't make my bed, what we'll talk about
Unknown Speaker 11:26
that later. We will definitely talk about that later, because I am floored that you don't make your
Jill Griffin 11:33
bed. I don't know why. I don't know why you're surprised by this. Whoa.
Molly Bierman 11:37
I mean, it tracks because you left your Kindle. But anyway, I what it taught me. Recovery taught me was consistency. Every morning, I had to do certain things right. I had to make my bed, I had to do a chore, whatever it was when I was living in the recovery house, like I had to do these steps. And through that, it's really taught me that structure, consistency and routine really catapults you into the life that you want to embody
Jill Griffin 12:07
absolutely well, you want to know, I just actually saw something recently, and it makes so much sense, because I am a very routine person. I have a very specific morning routine I follow every
Unknown Speaker 12:18
day. So I heard by this, but keep going.
Jill Griffin 12:22
Well, to be honest, when I get up in the morning, I'm the first one awake in the house, so making my bed right when I wake up is not happening. Yeah, anyway, but I have a very specific evening routine, and I know, like we both do certain things every day might not be spent once you have children, you know that routine, it gets hijacked a little bit, whatever. But there's things which is hard,
Molly Bierman 12:42
that's probably the hardest thing, yeah, for me in the last few months, but go ahead. But
Jill Griffin 12:46
I did, but I did see this thing the other day where, like, that consistency in having those rituals or routines that you do regulates your nervous system, which makes so much sense, because if you look at the way we lived prior to getting sober, there was no day that was the same. There was no consistency. There was no in your bedtime and when you ate, in what your what substances were in your body, like you were all over the place all the time, so, like, it
Molly Bierman 13:13
was like, if you ate, I think, I mean, ultimately, yeah, I think
Jill Griffin 13:18
that that consistency that we're taught when we're in recovery is so important, because it does get you back into your body. It gets you back your nervous system back. Like, okay, I know what to expect day to day. I know what to do. Like, my emotions are all over the place. Everything's all over the place, but I know that this thing will kind of bring me back to my feet, where my feet are, and what I have to do right now. Absolutely, absolutely, you know, yeah,
Molly Bierman 13:43
so consistency overall in every area of life is what has been the biggest lesson and the biggest takeaway.
Jill Griffin 13:52
So I think you've taken that lesson and turned them into your leadership path and the business that you're now, you know, a part of. And so let's talk about that a little bit. I think, yeah, what's the, what's your like, leadership, your path in this career that you're in now? Like, what does that look like?
Molly Bierman 14:14
Well, listen, I mean, it's really a story of a come up, right? I mean, ultimately, I didn't have this really idea of what I wanted to do when I got sober. I got sober really young, and so at 21 years old, I am not on the normal trajectory, right, quote, unquote, normal trajectory, right, going to college, figuring out the career path, you know, leaving the house, right? I had left the house for other reasons, and it didn't include education. But as I started to stay consistent and start to have opportunities, whatever I did, I did to the fullest, right? So I started working at a young age, and a lot of that was waiting to. Goals and socializing and being around people and starting to deliver a promise, right? Customer service, being attentive to detail, right? All of these qualities that I started to collect over lived experience, and I had this really big passion for helping people, right? And my my passion for helping people was because somebody helped me. It was that simple, right? It wasn't, you know, this big, you know, grandiose event. It was like a lot of individuals showed up and helped me consistently, and reached their hand out over a period of time. And so I started really just putting my passion into running some recovery houses, and then I had the energy to go back to school and become an addictions counselor, and then I was given the opportunity to work direct care at a program, and I just kept climbing the ranks. Right? I was just hungry for more, right? How do I perfect this skill set and move to the next? And really, what evolved over 15 years was that, and I can't believe it's been 15 years that I've worked in behavioral health, because some days it feels like a blink of an eye, right? That I just can't believe that I've lived all these chapters. But over those 15 years, I look back and the reason why I feel as though I can target a certain market, be able to lead other individuals and staff through an experience of pursuing their career goals and dreams, of working in this space, was because I worked in every role. So by the time I got to a place where I was owning, running and operating an organization, I had had the lived experience of being the patient to the entry level worker to the mid mid level management to then being, you know, in the C suite, right? And so that really occurred through just brick by brick. I don't know, I know it sounds so cliche, but each step got me a little bit closer and a little bit closer. And I was actually talking to an alumni yesterday that I ran into, and he was, you know, so excited. Ran up to me. He was like, Hey, I just celebrated a year. And, you know, thank the staff. And I know you're not there anymore, but I just want to thank you. And, and when I talked to him about it, I remember when, when clients or patients, whatever you term, it would come up to me and they would say, what do you do here? And I'm like, oh, you know, I'm Molly, I'm the executive director. And they'd be like, Oh, you're the executive director. And I'm like, You guys have it a little bit, you know, twisted. What I am is the person that comes in and supports whatever the staff needs me to do on that day. So my any given day looked so different. And so I think that was really my, my leadership style during that time, and it helped me to shape me into what I'm doing now, which is, you know, we'll get into that at some point. But
Jill Griffin 18:21
I mean, two things that came up, like, one, when you were just describing that style of leadership, what always sticks with me is, like, servant leadership, right? You know, like I even when I was in the clinical director roles, or even now, you know, you're considered the boss, right? And then people, there's this power dynamic. But the reality is, I'm still scrubbing toilets if I need to. I'm still doing the bottom of the barrel work. Like I joke all the time here. I'm like, somehow I'm the IT person. I should be the last person doing that, but somehow I also can relate, you know, yeah, yep, you know, because we wear all the hats, and I just jump in wherever I'm needed. And it's like, you know, it's serving the people that work for you, and not being that, like, there's a difference between being a leader and a boss, and I think you and I, like, really identify with that. The other thing that came up is, like, climbing the ranks, I feel like, especially in behavioral health, and part of why we started the podcast, honestly, like, there the system does not support building leaders. What happens is, you're a good tech, you're a good case manager, so then, okay, they incentivize you to go back to school or get some more training, and then you become, you know, a lead, some lead, and then you become a manager, and then you become a director, and it's like, but along the way, those are just the good workers. They're not really the leaders that are being put into these positions of leadership. And I think that's, I don't know. I mean, share a little bit about that, be in what your experience has been in leadership and behavioral health specifically.
Molly Bierman 19:55
I mean, that could be a whole topic in and of itself, but I'll say that i. So when you look at mid level management, when they climb from entry level worker, first experience hungry to help, right? There's one thing I always say when you get into this behavioral health space, right? This is a paid position, not a service position, and you have to treat it as such, right? So if you're looking to take care of yourself, you need to do that outside of the workspace. You're coming in here as a paid employee, right? It's not a it's it's not mission work. You know, it is nice that the two align, and you can bring purpose and passion into your work, but again, you're getting a paycheck, right? So I think there needs to be a distinguishing factor there, because I think a lot of people that I've come across and that I've met through the years, that I've been doing this come in because they want to help people, and I get that, and it is much more than just helping others, right? There's a lot of intricacies education, being able to create, you know, a trajectory for yourself. And so I I've struggled in that way with some of the you know, directors that I've worked with, and some of the colleagues that I've seen because they end up in those positions because they're passionate, which is huge. You cannot teach that you cannot teach passion. So that's something that any single one of us who's looking to hire individuals is wants people that are passionate, right in any space, of course, and it's hard to help individuals gain the confidence to be in a leadership role and have hard conversations. And so when
Jill Griffin 21:44
that's what, that's what gets people is the hard conversations where, ooh, I have to, I have to confront somebody about their bad behavior, or I have to have this uncomfortable conversation about their clothing that they're wearing to work because it's wildly inappropriate. Like, yeah, we can't just, like, see a problem and just like, pretend it's not there. And leadership is having hard conversations.
Molly Bierman 22:07
Listen, and I've been guilty of it. We've talked about it right when there's, like, one situation where you're like, oh, I don't really want to have to address that right now. Or what happens is that it only prolongs the ending and ultimately impacts many more employees than you originally anticipated. If you could have nipped it in the butt when you saw it, then you are able to protect the additional staff and the additional fallout. And also, what I tell folks is this is an opportunity for them to grow, right? I'm not meeting with you to reprimand you. I'm meeting with you to hopefully shape you into what comes next.
Jill Griffin 22:50
Yeah, right. And so this is a learning moment, right? It's a learning moment,
Molly Bierman 22:54
right? And a lot of individuals you know don't want to rumble, right? That's my favorite thing to do. I mean, a lot of the staff that I've worked with over the years, when we come into a management meeting and I say, let's put it on the table, they all look a little wide eyed, but by the end of it, they're like, I'm really grateful that you made us lean into that, because what happens is, if you silo your staff and they start telling you one thing and then splitting you with another director. It's the same thing as the patient experience, right? That can happen, yes, and what you really need to be careful of is, if you're doing it as your staff and the staff are reciprocating that type of behavior, it will impact the patient experience. It's not if so, that's a little bit about, you know, what if? What I've rumbled with over the years, and I've had to skin my knees pretty hard, you know, I've held on to staff that were not appropriate for too long. I have not wanted to make the hard decision. I haven't wanted to go through the hiring process, right, like all the things and when I but that's how we grow. That's how we grow. Yeah, so true. Well, I
Jill Griffin 24:05
would say that people would describe you, the friends that know you, and probably some of your staff or colleagues that you are, somebody who is not afraid to speak their mind. How has that shaped or challenged your leadership style. I
Molly Bierman 24:25
think it's a loaded question. I was out to dinner last night, and there was like, this random charge on our bill that nobody could give me an answer for why it was there. And the woman was like, Do you want me to get the manager? And I'm like, Yeah, I do. And the other 1000s, the other women at the table were like, we're really grateful for you, because they're like, we would have just paid it, you know, I don't know. I mean, I think, and that's just like a little side story, but I think that for me, how it's impacted my leadership. Style and the ability for individuals to get candid with me. I've had to build rapport. I've had to soften the edges at times where one on one, I can be inviting and open up the door for them to have their feelings. Look, I'm not somebody who's like, you can't have feelings. I don't think that's healthy. I think there's an opportunity for them to explain their struggles and grapple with their problems, and then, how are we coming to a solution? I'm not your therapist. I'm not letting you air out everything in the room and then not coming with tangible solution. But I'm also recognizing that this is a really hard space to work in. You work with people who are broken, in crisis, and really have no other no other place to turn, and they're entrusting that us as individuals are going to walk them out of that that darkness, right? So I think people would be surprised when you kind of went, when I go back to that original question, like, What would people be surprised about that they don't necessarily know? I would say that what people would be surprised about, especially in the work environment, is that I've actually been able to help people emote More times than not, with just being an active listener and allowing them to have space to really just be able to put it all out. There's been a lot of staff that have said, why is it that every time and I walk in your office, I just want to cry, and it's not because you're being mean, it's just because I feel safe, right? So I think there is a level of safety that I've carried and that doesn't compromise the dance and the ability to get down to business when it's necessary and needed, because I'm passionate, right?
Jill Griffin 27:01
Yeah, well, it's one of those things where, you know you're our kids, for instance, right? Like they're angels at school or at daycare, and then they completely fall apart at home, right? Because we're their safe space. And I feel like it's the same thing where, when we're patient, facing, right? We can't lose our shit. We need to keep it together. You need to, like, put on your best self and whatever. And then it's like, in the supervision session is when they can kind of fall apart a little bit around, like, I'm actually, you know, I got all this stuff going on at home. It's really affecting, you know, XYZ, and again, not the therapist, but I think in leadership, it's like also understanding, and this is where I think I struggle a little bit with our field at some points, because it's like, are we treating the staff and our colleagues as humans first, not just like the employee or the role, and because as humans, first, like, we're a people business, like, and if you're in customer service period with a restaurant, when you're people facing and you're a people business, your emotions are going to affect your work because you're dealing with people. And like, people set us off. Like, that's just the reality.
Molly Bierman 28:18
And there's some people that really have not worked well with my leadership style, right? Like, there have been people that I have not been able to connect with on that level, and I and a lot of times, I think that happens a good amount with some women that maybe are not feeling confident in themselves, and then when they're interacting with me, I don't know if they feel judged or they feel unsupported, but the people that have really taken to the empathy and the passion that I have, as well as the get down to business type Style, have really been able to, from what I understand, grow right, and I've been able to grow along with them, right? My goal is for you to take my job, right? I want you to take my job Absolutely. And in fact, I have somebody who did take my job right, just recently, when I left, you know, the agency that I've been with for five years and started and founded and created, and I am so damn proud of her. See rose to the occasion, and she was scared, and she didn't know how to do it, and she felt like she wasn't worthy, and she is crushing it, you know, she really,
Jill Griffin 29:36
yeah, but that's what makes a good leader, right? Because I you do. The whole point is, is that we talked about this last episode like, we're bringing people up, like, you want people to want to take your spot, because then that validates, like, I train them, right? I gave them the tools. I helped them find the tools that were already inside of them. Like, sometimes it's like, not even so. Much about we what we provide, but it's like reflect. It's like being a mirror, and like reflecting back. You're already doing these things. You're already capable of this, like, it's just you have this blocking belief that, whether it's I'm not worthy, I'm not good enough, I can't do it. It's too much responsibility. It's like you're already doing it. It's just you have to believe that you can do it. Yeah, you know, a title is a title. And I always talk about, like, leadership. It's funny, because I got into this a lot with one of my staff around, like she, she was very put off by the word leadership, and didn't want to step into a leadership role. And I tried to kind of explain in a million different ways, you're already showing up as a leader, like people come to you for, you know, advice on what to do work wise, they look to you for answers on how to do things like a title is not leadership. You can be, you know that tech and have leadership. You can be a mother, stay at home, mother and have leadership. Like, leadership is not about a title and being a boss and being in charge of people you know. I think leadership is showing up with that consistency and doing the things that you know are not always seen honestly, the things that like are in the background, that like when nobody sees you. Are you doing the right thing? Yeah, that, to me, is a lot of leadership of like, are you holding yourself accountable? Are you doing the things that you said you were going to do? Are you helping other people when they That's leadership? Like, are you reaching out when you see somebody struggling and being like, hey, I can help you with this. You know, I think it just like, it's such a bigger thing than just being the boss. Like, because, let's be honest, being the boss is not and being the person in charge is not glamorous. I just want to be clear. I think people think we sit in, like, our office in our ivory store, and we just, like, direct people. It's a lot more involved than that. It's a lot of it's a lot of work. It's not glamorous. It's a lot of late nights, weekends, like, not all the time, but sometimes like that, balance is off. Yeah. All right. So speaking of balance, you where you have many roles now. You are now wife, a mother, you know, you have, you have a lot going on. So what? What does balance like mean to you? What do you think of when you hear that word? I loathe it personally. I think
Molly Bierman 32:26
it's pretty much bullshit for the most part. I mean, I think that,
Unknown Speaker 32:33
listen, I,
Molly Bierman 32:38
at any given time, my energy is going somewhere, and it is not going to equal places. That's the reality, yeah. So what's happening right now is my my attention is going to a podcast. You know, in this moment, I have two kids. They needed support today, right? So they're with their dad. You know, this morning, at any given time that role flips right and they when
Jill Griffin 33:08
we turn off recording, we're our attentions going somewhere else, my kids and
Molly Bierman 33:12
my husband, right? But there is always something in my life that is getting attention more so than other things, I will tell you that my personal experience was that I wanted to take time off of work to to, you know, birth my kids, and then be with my kids. And that was important to me to have that experience. I think a couple things that it taught me was that I took a full three months maternity leave with both my children, and what it taught me was that the show carries on. I think what people think about balance is, if I'm not in everything, or have this equal balance of all these little areas of my life, that things are going to fall apart. What I can tell you is that that's just not true. If you're able to set up the structure of all those areas with the proper support. So for me, taking three months, people would say, like, you're going to walk away from the business for three months. And I'm like, Yeah, because I trust the mid level management that I've trained and worked alongside, right? Like they know what they're doing. They know how to support the clients in the business, right? Were there things that probably got missed? Yeah, probably.
Jill Griffin 34:28
But things get missed when we're there too, like, so sometimes I intentionally miss things. I'm like, I'm not doing this this week. You know what I mean? Like, I'm prioritizing. And sometimes when we're in the leadership position, or somebody's like, covering for us, or those times where sometimes we can look at those things and be like, Well, why didn't you do this? It's like, because that person chose to prioritize things, just like we choose to prioritize things. And I teach the people that I supervise and I mentor. It's like, listen, there are some that to do. List is never ending, right? It is, it is it is endless. It's endless, right? And every week you have to look at or every day, what is the priority right now, because sometimes that priority shifts within an hour, yep, depending on what's happening,
Molly Bierman 35:12
really it there are different needs and different demands, right? Sometimes my kids need more, sometimes work needs more, sometimes a client needs more, right?
Jill Griffin 35:20
Like, sometimes, sometimes your husband needs more.
Molly Bierman 35:24
Well, yeah, he should have. When I just rambled that off, we'll get into that. But yeah, I mean, I even was talking with a woman, a colleague, a couple days ago, and we had this lengthy conversation, like, how do you dedicate time to just you and your husband, right? And when she really talk to me about that, like, we don't do that a lot, like just him and I, right, we're either with friends or we're with our kids or so that was like a moment where I was like, wow, that's important for me to recognize that that is part of, you know, I don't even want to say the word balance, but part of the part of my life that I should probably be a little more attentive to, right? What are those individual moments where it's not surrounded by a
Jill Griffin 36:05
group? So in their seasons, you're also in the thick of it. You have small children. Like it changes. You're in, you're in the thick of it. Yeah, most
Molly Bierman 36:15
people are like, you decided to start a new business and a podcast, and, and, you know, and you're, you know, my daughter's 10 months old.
Jill Griffin 36:24
Yeah, I did. We wouldn't do it any other way. Okay, out here. So, speaking of starting the podcast, you've said this podcast is the biggest risk that you have taken recently, like, probably, probably
Molly Bierman 36:41
since, since deciding that I wanted to have kids.
Jill Griffin 36:46
Ooh, that was a big risk. I remember you're like, I don't know if I could do it big. Yeah, we'll talk about that. But why was the podcast such a big risk for you?
Molly Bierman 36:55
The podcast was a risk for me because it didn't have any infrastructure or safety.
Jill Griffin 37:04
We're just winging it out here,
Molly Bierman 37:07
kind of like, Hey, we're going to do this podcast. And we had talked about it. How are we going to structure it? Of course, we, you know, we're type A out here. Of course we have, you know, we have all the scaffolding.
Jill Griffin 37:18
We do something, we do something.
Molly Bierman 37:21
But it was a lot of free flow, not a lot of process, right? So when I work in an agency that's really contained, or I've worked in the different roles that I've, you know, ranked up through, there was always some scaffolding that already existed. It wasn't just me alone with, you know, my co host and friend and you know, feels like, you know, sisterhood, right? It? So I think the risk felt like if I really was to go there, exposed, powerless over the outcome. And super vulnerable, right?
Jill Griffin 38:07
Sounds like just getting sober,
Molly Bierman 38:08
and that's what pregnancy felt like, too, right? I didn't find
Jill Griffin 38:13
out you're like, What am I doing? I don't know what I'm doing, but I'm just gonna keep showing up. Like, I think that's, I think that is the biggest misconception with us, but just women in general, I'll put women in there, but I think men too, but people who seem like they have it together. And I feel like social media highlights this and makes it worse, because you only see the highlight reel right on social media, yeah, but like, I think people look at, you know us, who we're confident, we have a lot of stuff going on, successful, whatever, and they're like, oh, they must have it together all the time. It's like, no, most of the time, I'm just like, I don't know. I'm just, I don't have a plan. I'm just, like, winging it like, I'm just figuring it out, and I trust that whatever the outcome is going to be, it'll be, it'll be good, or it won't, but I'm still gonna survive. Like, what's the worst thing that's gonna happen? Well, there's
Molly Bierman 39:06
not, you know, when we I think that the podcast just felt a couple reasons. Is that as I've evolved and had children, and I talked a little bit on this, about about this, on someone else's, you know, podcast was that, I think a little bit more about what I put into the ether, because I have kids, right? So me 10 years ago, being like, let's do a podcast. It's like, okay, wheels are off. Let's just do it,
Jill Griffin 39:34
right? That would have been even more unhinged if everyone can imagine unfiltered. I mean, we're, we're, we're pretty unfiltered. But I think the thoughts that were coming then were a little less well, little less well,
Molly Bierman 39:50
probably not super linear. So I think that, yeah, I think that this is, this is a time where it feels impactful to do it and all. So, yeah, a little scary. I feel like I'm catching my stride though. I mean, granted, it hasn't it. We're good. We haven't aired yet. So let's see how, you know, see how that goes.
Jill Griffin 40:13
Like and Subscribe people just make sure that we're on the right track. What part of your story do you feel like you've been afraid to share? But, you know, it's time you don't have to go into detail, but like you can if you want. What part of my I feel like you've been super, yeah, you've been super vulnerable lately. I mean, I know that you had, you know, the podcast with with mom recently, and you know we're talking now. We've, we've recorded a couple episodes, but I feel like I don't know. I think this is more public and like, what? What part of you do? You feel like you haven't really spoken about publicly?
Molly Bierman 40:57
I feel like I publicly share about my recovery in the recovery world, and that feels really safe and comfortable. I think that where I have grappled and what I'm coming to terms with now is how I can actually put a voice space to moms and women in their recovery journey that are fearful to say it, and I think a lot of that stems from the community I'm in feeling like people will be judgmental, which is so really out of character for me, to Be honest, because there's a lot of folks that probably do judge me and that I don't really get impacted by. But for some reason, like in my new community, with other moms, they have kids that are my kids ages, we're creating community and friendship with new folks. How that would be received felt a little scary. And I did it anyway, because I will tell you that, you know, going back to that original question is, like, what is also a takeaway from your recovery? Or, like, what is the biggest lesson? It's consistency, but it's also, if you don't take the risk, you don't get the reward. And so when I actually went public, a little bit about my story with my mom. I think really, what came of that was so much good feedback. I was looking for the negative comments, trust and believe, right? Like I was like, is there anybody that's going to come out and say, you know this, you know, whatever, right? There's some people that I that I harmed in my process, right in my early in my, you know, when I was active. So, but really, all the feedback I got was from different moms that listened to it somehow that reached out, that didn't know me, from physicians that reached out and were like, thank you so much for educating us a little bit more on the family piece of it. So, yeah, that's where I've been a little bit ambivalent to share more about that part. And now that I've done it, I feel like it's empowered me to be even a little bit more vulnerable in this space with you. You know,
Jill Griffin 43:15
yeah, with our guests. I think it's important, though, to recover out loud, right? And we've talked about this, it's not even about like, if you're listening to this and you're not sober, that's okay, because this message still applies to you. I think there are parts of us, you know, the therapist in me is like those shadow parts, right? Those there are parts of us where we may have lived a life that we aren't proud of. We've made decisions that we're not proud of, and I think we try to recreate this identity. Right? You and I share this now. We're in a new community. We have friends of our kids, like parents of our friends kids and like we're we're upstanding members of society, great, but that wasn't always true for us, and those people don't necessarily know that part of us, but I think part of why we want to kind of speak out is like, you need to integrate your whole self, including those shadow parts, like, I'm sorry, but if, if you're 40 years old like I am, and you're going to look me in the eye and said that you've lived a life without any shame, moments of Like, I wish I never did that. That's really icky. I don't want to share that with people. Like, if you've lived your life up until you must be a monk or a priest or I don't even that probably wouldn't happen either. But like, you can't You're not human. You're not human. Is the point? Like, humans do stupid things, and we do things that we're not proud of. And the reality is, is that we need to, kind of, like, recover, and I'm using that word broadly, but like, we need to heal from that out loud. We need to be putting it out there, because Brene Brown's work around shame, like, that's kind of where I live now. It's like, we need to, we need to talk about it. We need to normalize it. We need to kind of say, Hey, we've. All done some really dark things, and my dark things and your dark things may be a little bit more similar than other people's, but the reality is we need to be kind of having that conversation and being vulnerable so that people can step into their whole authentic selves, including that part of them, right? Not trying to, like, put brush it off to the side.
Molly Bierman 45:23
Well, I also think that there's a lot of folks that kind of hide behind what they did in their active days, right? Like, if they were, you know, drinking or in any sort of shameful behaviors, or self harmful behaviors, whatever it was, right? And I think that once they start to get well, this is my experience, they kind of just soar through, you know, they start to naturally rise, right, because you're not engaging in harmful behaviors. But as you start to rise, I think what happens is people get ambivalent, to share the FaceTime down moment now, right? So I really like to step into the face down moments in the present, right? Because I think it's important, and I think it's important for people to say and hear that it's messy. You know, even
Jill Griffin 46:18
life is messy, yeah, yeah, being a human is messy, yeah? And I think now it feels more impactful, and I don't know it almost like it's the humility part of it, of like, okay, yeah. Like, I might be a badass, successful person that you see, like running and doing all these things, but, like, I also did XYZ. And let me tell you, like, that was not fun. It was very painful. And, you know, but I'm here now, like, and I think that's kind of like the whole message, where it's like, whatever that thing is, there's another person on this earth, probably millions, but at least one other that has felt how you feel right now, and there is hope that you're going to get through this moment, yeah, and take the time and
Molly Bierman 47:10
break through the ceiling, right? That's what this is really about, you know? How did we continue to break through ceilings that, for all intents and purposes, were a little imaginary, you know, so
Jill Griffin 47:22
we're delusional, truly still a little DeLillo, what does no permission necessary mean to you?
Molly Bierman 47:35
Oof, I feel like it embodies me quite a bit when I go to tell people that that's
Unknown Speaker 47:43
the name of the podcast or like that tracks,
Molly Bierman 47:48
no permission necessary, means for me that I'm good. I'm gonna take the risk whether people think it's a good idea or not, I don't tend to ask for a lot of opinion. I'm and when I do, I think people get a little bit confused, like sometimes I was talking to my husband last night about and I asked him a couple questions, and he I think he gets confused when I ask for his opinion, because I so frequently do not.
Jill Griffin 48:20
So that's why we work well together, because I will offer an opinion without you asking, because you need to hear it sometimes, and you won't ask for it. So I'll be like, Hank Time out. Time out. We need to, let's just circle
Molly Bierman 48:33
back. Yeah, so I think that's a really good explanation, right? Honestly, no correction necessary is that I'm not really going to ask for the opinion. I'm going to take the risk, and I need people around me that are going to give the opinion without asking permission from me, right? I mean, that's a really great definition, to be quite honest. Yeah,
Jill Griffin 48:50
not asking for your consent. Word. We're doing it anyway. Okay, yeah, sometimes, all right, is there anything you haven't shared you feel like really compelled to share today.
Molly Bierman 49:06
You know, I think that the only thing that I feel really compelled to share about is that for the person who feels like it is going to take an act of God to become more confident in themselves, to be able to take risks and to be able to even take these baby steps towards your goals. It's simply it's not as as hard as you think it is after you take the first step, right? Because as soon as your purpose and your confidence starts to raise a little bit. It propels you to continue momentum. Yeah, yeah. It just needs a little bit of a push. So I think that really what I want to say is that if you're here, you're here for a reason. I don't believe anything happens by by accident. I don't believe in coincidences. I believe they align for the. Purpose of propelling you and creating growth. And so I hope that you stick around to hear more about where our knees got skinned and we still were able to get to the next rung. So
Jill Griffin 50:19
amazing. Well, I hope everybody enjoyed this conversation, and thank you for spending time with us on no permission necessary. If today's conversation like hits you you're like, I get this. It means you're growing. It means you're you're our people, you're vibing with us, and we're just getting started. We want you to really like and subscribe. You know, share with your friends. Pass this along. We would really appreciate it. I think next week, we are going to be digging into all things, our parenting journey, our journeys to deciding to become mothers and like what that looks like, and it looks a little different for both of us, and we have a lot to say on that, so hoping that resonates with the parents, but we're really excited to have that conversation. So stay tuned. Matters. Stay tuned. You never need permission, and we hope see you next week. We didn't do it. So one thing we do at every episode is give a permission slip to all of our listeners. And I want you for like, this whole conversation, like, wrap up what would be a permission slip that you give to our followers?
Unknown Speaker 51:39
So,
Molly Bierman 51:42
I love this concept, and you would think that I would have been more well prepared, but here we are.
Jill Griffin 51:49
I mean, that's there we go. So
Molly Bierman 51:52
the permission slip is that you don't have to be prepared to take the risk, because you're never going to feel prepared, right? You're never going to feel like you're fully ready, you're never going to feel like you're fully equipped. You're never going to feel like you have it all aligned. And I would say, take the risk anyway, right? That's been my mantra, that's take the risk and lean in.
Jill Griffin 52:13
Yeah, because you're never going to be 100% there's always going to be a little doubt, there's always going to be a fear, there's always going to be what ifs you have to just jump in and see where it takes you. Because I will say that usually when you start something the way you thought it was going to be, is never how it ends up being exactly. So, yeah, sometimes you just gotta roll with it. That's a good mission to take
Molly Bierman 52:39
the risk. Yeah, yeah,
Unknown Speaker 52:40
all right. I.
