The 4 Types of Exhaustion: Why You Feel Tired Even After Sleeping
Season 2 Episode 8 with Jill Griffin & Molly Bierman
Why do you still feel exhausted when you've had a full night's sleep?
In this episode of No Permission Necessary, Jill Griffin and Molly Bierman explore four types of exhaustion that go beyond simply feeling sleepy: carrying tired, performing tired, deciding tired, and bracing tired.
Through personal experiences and their perspectives as behavioral health professionals, Jill and Molly discuss the invisible mental load of motherhood, emotional exhaustion, decision fatigue, workplace pressure, and the feeling of being constantly on alert.
They also explore why high-functioning women can struggle to rest, how expectations influence our sense of capacity, and why recognizing the source of exhaustion matters when deciding what kind of recovery or support may help.
Whether you're managing a family, leading a team, navigating stress, or simply wondering why you feel so drained, this conversation offers a different way to understand the exhaustion you've been carrying.
Because feeling tired isn't always about how many hours you slept.
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Molly Bierman (00:00)
When someone says just take it easy, I wanna punch you in the face.
Jill Griffin (00:02)
When you have all the energy in the world, you can keep working. It's almost like you have to stop yourself from like doing because you could just keep going forever.
Molly Bierman (00:10)
Totally.
Jill Griffin (00:11)
We almost expect that we're going to operate that way always. So in the same way, it's like so then when we have to shut it down and rest as hard as we're performing, it feels like a failure. It feels like we're
Molly Bierman (00:24)
Mm-hmm.
Jill Griffin (00:25)
doing something wrong.
We are tired, okay? And so today we're talking about that feeling, that tired that we don't even know how to fix.
Jill Griffin (00:34)
Welcome to No Permission Necessary. I'm Jill Griffin.
Molly Bierman (00:37)
And I'm Molly Bierman.
Jill Griffin (00:39)
Real conversations about recovery, identity, success, relationships, and the pressure to hold it all together.
Molly Bierman (00:45)
From two behavioral health experts who've lived it.
Jill Griffin (00:47)
No perfect answers, no polished performance.
Molly Bierman (00:50)
This is no permission
necessary.
Jill Griffin (00:51)
No Permission Necessary.
Jill Griffin (00:54)
Welcome back, everyone. We're here. We're here. We made it.
Molly Bierman (00:56)
Welcome. We are here.
We are here. I recorded a little clip yesterday, which I'm gonna send to you.
Jill Griffin (01:05)
Wow. Wow.
Molly Bierman (01:06)
And it talked about actually landing that we are here. I don't know what season we're in, guys. And this is what I said on the little clip, but the season is bumping. Okay. There's a lot like.
Universal energy is
Tired.
Jill Griffin (01:26)
We are tired, okay?
you know what? The two things that I get, when you ask somebody like, How are you? the two most common responses that I get from people are one, busy. Number one, I'm tired.
Molly Bierman (01:38)
Too tired.
Jill Griffin (01:42)
And I just feel like this isn't how God intended us to live, is just busy and tired all the time. I just don't think that's what God wants for my life. I don't know.
Molly Bierman (01:53)
Well, that's what I said yesterday in this clip. It was, hey, I have to believe this is part of a greater plan. But this week, when things are so incredibly bumpy on overdrive, no solution,
Jill Griffin (02:08)
Yeah.
Molly Bierman (02:09)
no resolution, no clarity, so fucking gray. Sorry, excuse my language.
It is so dysregulating to figure out where we are. Like it it takes every fiber of your being to just roll with the punches. I don't know.
Jill Griffin (02:26)
so I want to know, is there a point in your recent life that you can point to where you're like, is something wrong with me because of how you felt? Tired, like exhaustion wise?
Molly Bierman (02:33)
Yes. What? I was
on the phone with my functional medicine doctor being like, hey, can you prescribe something? I'm not doing well, right? Like I messaged him and guys, I had COVID, okay? So for those listening and who who are not aware, COVID is back. Okay. And I am not one to lay down.
but I'm telling you, I had to lay down. Okay. So by 789, I'm like, okay, I'm done with this. Like, we are over this. We need to move on. And so I'm I'm messaging my functional medicine doc. I'm like, hey, I have COVID. Is there anything that you could suggest for me to feel better a little bit more quickly? Because I'm feeling like still a little foggy. His response.
Jill Griffin (03:21)
Rest.
Molly Bierman (03:23)
His response was like.
Molly, COVID is similar to the common cold. You just need to ride it out. Get some sunlight, hydrate, rest when you need, don't over exert yourself and keep it pushing. And in my mind, I'm like, okay, he thinks I'm an idiot.
Jill Griffin (03:41)
Well, rest is typically not something you thrive at. I mean, it was midweek la last week and I said I said, You need to shut it down. Well, I'm not doing that much. The response was, I'm not doing that much. I'm like, but it still sounds like you're doing stuff. Sounds like you need to shut it down. I know it's
Molly Bierman (03:57)
Okay.
Jill Griffin (03:57)
not convenient, but it might be what you need to do.
Molly Bierman (04:00)
And
I was so annoyed by that when Jill messaged me that I'm like, shut the fuck up. You are the same. Okay. And then I did it.
Jill Griffin (04:08)
then you did it. But then you had to do it.
Molly Bierman (04:10)
And then the next day I was like, okay, she's right. I have to cancel my day and clear my clients.
Jill Griffin (04:16)
It just took a while.
Sometimes getting back to the basics when you're in that moment, I I preach to a lot of people around energy levels and monitoring their energy levels because I I feel like we get into this mindset, especially as high functioning, high performing women, people, whoever's listening.
Molly Bierman (04:33)
Yep.
Jill Griffin (04:34)
When when you are in that position, you feel like, okay, those days when you're on fire.
When you have all the energy in the world, you can keep working. It's almost like you have to stop yourself from like doing because you could just keep going forever.
Molly Bierman (04:49)
Totally.
Jill Griffin (04:49)
We almost expect that we're going to operate that way always. So in the same way, it's like so then when we have to shut it down and rest as hard as we're performing, it feels like a failure. It feels like we're
Molly Bierman (05:03)
Mm-hmm.
Jill Griffin (05:03)
doing something wrong.
It feels disorienting a little bit because that's not our norm.
So I want to go into these like four types of tired
Molly Bierman (05:13)
So the four tiers. The four tiers of tired, okay, guys. One is carrying tired, okay? Carrying tired. The mental load. You're the one who remembers the forms, the birthdays, who's out of what. Nobody sees it because nothing drops.
Carrying tired is also surprise packages like I had today when I was like, what is this? This is so interesting. There's three packages. How did I how did these end up on my front doorstep? because I was swiping while I was tired. So there's that too.
Jill Griffin (05:49)
Think that the that mental exhaustion, we've talked about this on other episodes, the mental load you have as a mother, a parent, however, whatever you want to say. But I I also think going into the holidays, we we carry a little bit more because we don't want to let anybody down. We don't want to forget things. this is where a list just really slaps for me. I mean, I
I tell my staff this. I tell anybody in my life, my children know this. You can tell me something all day. That's great. If you're expecting something to get done from you telling me something, if I don't write it down or put it somewhere, it's in one ear and out the other forever. It's gone forever. I have to have some sort of reminder.
Molly Bierman (06:35)
Totally.
So
Jill Griffin (06:39)
This
is also just reminding me, ta speaking of the mental load, I never bought the school pictures that are being taken today. So after recording, that will be hopefully something I remember. Let me just you know what, I'm gonna write a note about that right now, just so just so I do
Molly Bierman (06:49)
See Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
Jill Griffin (06:55)
remember.
Wow. Okay. Well, the second type of tired would be that performance tired. This is where I feel like I'm always talking about this. This is like that feeling of being on. feeling like you have to be more performative. This is why I actually hate like lunches and dinners, like these professional
Molly Bierman (07:15)
Networking.
Jill Griffin (07:16)
networking things. I this is why, because I feel like
You don't, you're with people you don't know. So, like it to some extent, I don't do well putting a mask on or performing, but I feel like in some way I have to like hold back my real self because I it might be too much. I'm not sure who I'm talking to. also for clients, as as a therapist, holding space for somebody all day. Like I am my authentic self with my clients.
But it's different. I can't be my whole self. It's my authentic self. But it's like in a it's like in a little box because I can't just like be out there fully.
Molly Bierman (07:54)
No.
Jill Griffin (07:55)
No
Imagine I mean but
Certain clients need
that, to be honest with you. However,
I think me at my core, I'm just like goofy, I'm sarcastic, I'm I I do like having fun, but like when you're dealing with clients and serious stuff, you can't be like, this isn't a fun moment, you know? Like we gotta dial it in.
I
will say I don't I know this about myself, so I do have to be mindful about packing my social calendar. I don't, I I really don't try not to overextend myself because one of the things I really value is authenticity. So I also really choose not to put myself in a lot of situations where I can't be my authentic self, right? Like there's,
Molly Bierman (08:39)
Totally.
Jill Griffin (08:41)
This isn't just specific to our industry, I think, in any. Like there is some performance that takes place when you're protecting, you know, your business or your brand or whatever.
Molly Bierman (08:51)
Your brand, your image, yeah.
Jill Griffin (08:54)
And you feel like you have to perform in a certain way where it's like, I'm not
Molly Bierman (08:58)
No
Jill Griffin (08:58)
I'm not here for that. I just don't have the I didn't live through everything I lived through to show up in some fake ass way for people. This is who I am.
I just, I just kind of feel like, you know, that's what but at the same time, you also can't, I know that I have a big presence. So I feel like the performance piece for me is like I can't just like lead with that in every space either.
Molly Bierman (09:21)
Mm-hmm.
Deciding tired by 4 p.m. We've made 200 decisions. What's for dinner is I don't know, guys. I don't have it, I don't have the answers on this. What's for dinner this week has been not great. Okay. We've we've we've we've been surviving.
Jill Griffin (09:40)
we have other people to delegate these things to. Let's let's really look at why you are the deciding factor on these things.
And this goes for if you're a parent, why are you always the parent that doing certain things or in a friendship or whatever the the partnership relationship is? I think sometimes we just assume these roles and then don't really think about well, why am I always the one? I do I need to make this decision? Do I need to be doing these choices? Whatever. But I think what I've learned in that process with this staff is like.
Sometimes if we're take if we're making the decisions all the time and we're taking all that on, we are actually disempowering the people around us to step
into that role. And so just this last week, usually I make the agenda for this meeting. And one of the staff that reports to me was like, I got it. I'm gonna send it out. I'm gonna make it and send it out. It makes your life easier. I'm like, my God, I did something right because
This person has taken this off my plate without me even asking. And so now going forward, this is something you do, right? And so the the the point is that some of that decision fatigue happens when we don't want to give up control of some of those decisions that really they aren't ours to make anymore either. And
Molly Bierman (11:00)
Right.
Jill Griffin (11:01)
I've had to
For me to kind of level up and create some space on my calendar, it's been like, Nope, you own this and it's gonna look imperfect and probably not the way I would do it, but it's gonna be good enough. It doesn't have to be my way all the time either.
Molly Bierman (11:13)
Think that's important for the families and the clients that we work with too, right? when a family's in a level of crisis and they are trying to figure out how to manage it and how to create it and how to fix it, they may be getting the perfect amount of sleep, they may be working out every day, they may be eating right, they may have all the resources and all the support.
And at the end of the day, they keep saying they're exhausted and they're tired is because they're trying to kind of put this situation and and fix it, right? It's allowing, I don't know. I mean, the best way to describe my week the last couple weeks has been like just allowing yourself to be powerless. Because at the end of the day, like there's only so
Jill Griffin (11:47)
Surrender.
Molly Bierman (11:47)
much, yeah, there's only so much energy you can dedicate to any one thing.
Jill Griffin (11:52)
I think maybe
you're talking a little bit more about this last kind of tired, which is this like bracing tired. I think of it as if you're watching us on YouTube, it's like when you're holding tight to something and your system just won't let go of it. It's your nervous system being hyper-vigilant, you're on all the time.
Molly Bierman (12:09)
Totally.
Jill Griffin (12:10)
I I meant I think of it as like wired but tired.
You're wired so that when you you're exhausted, you hit the bed, you want to go to sleep, but your mind doesn't stop because
Molly Bierman (12:19)
Right.
Jill Griffin (12:20)
your nervous system is at a level 10. You're right at the edge of your window of tolerance, and you're waiting for the other shoe to drop. I think a lot of people live in this space. I mean, this is kind of what I'm doing with clients all the time is teaching them about their window of tolerance, how their nervous system works.
But I will say that when we talk about nervous system regulation and this type of tired where like your nervous system is just like buzzing all the time, being regulated.
Doesn't mean that you're calm all the time. And I
Molly Bierman (12:51)
Mm-hmm.
Jill Griffin (12:51)
feel like this is a big misconception in
Molly Bierman (12:53)
Mm-hmm.
Jill Griffin (12:54)
social media things and nervous system regulations, big buzz phrase right now. Having a nervous system that supports you means that when you are, you know, maybe overextended or you are in that buzzing phase, that you know how to downshift.
That you can recognize when maybe you're a little elevated
Molly Bierman (13:12)
Yeah.
Jill Griffin (13:12)
or recognize when you're a little bit down, and you can either upshift or downshift appropriately. When your nervous system is kind of broken or not working right, it's when we have no tools to get from this area back into the middle, or from this area back into the middle. And so that's where like getting professional help really does.
wonders when you're having trouble accessing those coping skills because it is possible to have negative thoughts, negative beliefs, a trauma that's happened, addiction, all these things, and retrain your nervous system. Our brain and bodies are built for retraining itself for health.
Our body and brains want to get to that place, but sometimes we need a little extra help getting there.
Molly Bierman (13:56)
The buzzing is so real too, right? Like there is a literal for
Jill Griffin (14:01)
Yeah.
Molly Bierman (14:02)
me at least, there's a literal buzzing, like internally.
Jill Griffin (14:05)
Yes.
Molly Bierman (14:06)
And I don't know how else to describe that. And if you haven't like attuned to that or you've felt that in the past and maybe just disregarded it, like there is this desire that your body's saying, You need to ground, you need to ground, you need to ground, whatever that looks like, right? So,
Jill Griffin (14:19)
Yeah.
Molly Bierman (14:19)
you know, a lot of times that's
Putting your feet in the grass, that's sitting in the sun, that's going for a walk, that's whatever, right? Like all the little tips and tricks. A little tapping, a little tapping going on.
Jill Griffin (14:28)
Doing some four six eight breathing. Yeah, like I little little butterfly hug.
Sometimes we just need that. It's okay. Sometimes it's just being like sometimes it's the pep talk you gotta give yourself, like, girl, you got this. Okay. We got four hours till bedtime. We got this.
Molly Bierman (14:48)
Totally. Right. We're gonna make it.
Jill Griffin (14:52)
We're gonna make it. We made all the other days work somehow. So we're gonna make it today.
Molly Bierman (14:56)
That's the that's like the golden ticket right there, you know? Because I do sometimes we can get ourselves so spun up, especially when we're, you know, in that level of tired, right? And, you know, being able to just say, okay, it'll be fine by tomorrow, right? Like, or it'll be fine by tonight, or whatever it is. Like there just needs to be this acknowledgement that it's like big and hard and all those things.
Jill Griffin (15:23)
That
is an underrated skill right there because
Molly Bierman (15:25)
Totally.
Jill Griffin (15:26)
when you are tired, it magnifies everything in your life to be the worst of the worst of the worst. And
Molly Bierman (15:33)
Ever. Mm-hmm.
Jill Griffin (15:35)
if you really are serious about looking at if you're if you look at that, you're like, this isn't even that bad. Like
I used to sleep in abandoned buildings. Like this is not that serious. As my daughter would say, no one cares. Like the thing sometimes that we make the biggest things in our lives and and most important, it's like at the end of it all, not it doesn't matter. No one cares. It's gonna be fine.
Molly Bierman (15:59)
Doesn't matter. Right. Right.
Jill Griffin (16:02)
All right, let's do what's let's do some rapid fire. Which of the four tireds are you this week?
Molly Bierman (16:10)
performing tired, for sure.
all of it has been, you know, I could probably throw a couple others in there, but we'll say Performing Tired has taken the cake.
Jill Griffin (16:19)
racing tired. My body's recovering from this race. It's like I don't I'm not sure who you thought you were doing this, but we're we're we have had to downshift very seriously this week.
Molly Bierman (16:31)
crushed
it. Nap or cancel the plans.
Jill Griffin (16:33)
napping all day.
Molly Bierman (16:35)
Interesting. I thought you were gonna say cancel the plans.
I think you're a mix of both, but I'm
Jill Griffin (16:41)
I'll n I'll cancel the plans too nap.
Molly Bierman (16:43)
I'm gonna cancel the plans. I'm probably not gonna nap, I'm gonna cancel the plans to do something else.
Jill Griffin (16:47)
What restful thing do people recommend that makes it worse for you?
Molly Bierman (16:51)
When someone says just take it easy, I wanna punch you in the face.
Jill Griffin (16:54)
That was me last week, guys. She immediate non response for the rest of the day. I was like, Okay, well that that landed.
She was she put me on do not disturb for the rest of the day.
Molly Bierman (17:07)
I mean, like, yes, thank you. You're a genius. Is th is what I think in my head when someone says that. anyway.
Jill Griffin (17:13)
You know what's
you know what I hate is when people are like, well, just take the day off. I'm like, do you understand what that looks like? Like it it it usually
Molly Bierman (17:20)
The yeah, right.
Jill Griffin (17:22)
it will be like a payroll day. It's like, yeah, you know what? I think I will take today off and no one gets fucking paid. Let's do that. Let's see how that works out for everyone involved.
Molly Bierman (17:32)
Totally.
Jill Griffin (17:33)
One thing you carry that nobody actually asked you to carry.
Being a case manager this week for your entire family.
Molly Bierman (17:40)
Yeah, exactly. Thank you. I get ca I'm too tired, I can't even name it.
Yes, case manager and like house representative. I don't know how else to say that. There were so it was Grand Central here this week.
Jill Griffin (17:53)
I'm gonna say my expectations. I think the expectations I carry sometimes it's like nobody nobody is doing that to yourself except for you.
Molly Bierman (18:02)
Yeah, it's true. It's really true.
Jill Griffin (18:05)
Like everyone else thinks you're doing great and you need to dial it back maybe.
Molly Bierman (18:09)
Such
a good such a good episode, really.
Jill Griffin (18:10)
All right. Well, we
you're not lazy, you're not broken, you're tired in a way that sleep may not fix, but it's important to name it. Stop prescribing yourself the wrong rest. And we hope that everyone listening to this is in a rested space. But if you're not, keep coming back. And please, if you haven't yet, follow us on Instagram at no permission necessary or wherever you listen to podcasts. Also leaving a review.
We would love that. We really would.
Molly Bierman (18:41)
And also, next week's episode, you can find out a little teaser here. The things you're allowed to keep to yourself, not everything needs to be shared. See you next week.
