How to Rest Without Guilt: Boundaries, Burnout, and Taking Time Off
Episode 52 with Jill Griffin & Molly Bierman
In this episode of No Permission Necessary, Jill and Molly explore why rest can feel so difficult, especially for high-functioning women who are used to being available, responsible, and constantly needed.
They discuss the pressure to stay connected during time off, the role technology plays in constant availability, and why taking a vacation does not always mean someone is actually able to unplug. The conversation also looks at motherhood, business ownership, guilt, boundaries, and the importance of creating small moments of joy and restoration in everyday life.
This episode is a reminder that rest is not something you have to earn, and that creating space to enjoy your life matters just as much as keeping up with it.
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Jill Griffin (00:00)
So I want everyone listening to this episode, we're gonna do a little we're gonna do a little therapy exercise where just for a moment, I want you to just sit with what it feels like when you take time off. It's your first, maybe it's the day before you're about to go out, it's a Friday before, and you're like, I'm off all week next week.
What do feel like? Are you anxious? Are you nervous? Are you telling people, ⁓ well, you can still reach out to me for XYZ? don't worry. I'll take care of that. Even though you're gonna be away or on vacation.
I've had to do a lot of coaching with staff around like you are off. That means we're not taking phone calls, we're not answering emails. In fact, take it off your phone.
Be done.
Molly Bierman (00:40)
I
mean, I think it really is dependent on if you're working in an agency or in like a corporate structure versus y owning your own business. I think there is a differentiator there.
Jill Griffin (00:49)
I think that's bullshit. I think with technology, we have created this facade that people need to be on and needed all the time. And it's bullshit. Unless you are a foreign diplomatic leader of an of an independent nation in this world, I don't think that you actually need to be on every day 24-7-365. I think that's bullshit.
Molly Bierman (01:31)
welcome back.
Jill Griffin (01:31)
Welcome back,
Welcome back.
It's summertime.
Molly Bierman (01:34)
it's summertime.
Jill Griffin (01:35)
which means vacation time, which means being out here enjoying your life. And I actually had a conversation with a colleague yesterday about how they were on PTO and people were reaching out, didn't get the response they wanted because they had their phone off and then kind of having to deal with that fallout afterwards.
Molly Bierman (01:40)
Hm.
Jill Griffin (01:55)
And it made me think about about this, how it really falls into those parts of us that can't turn off. And then on the flip side of that, when you do turn off, how other people respond to that because they expect you to be on all the time.
Molly Bierman (02:10)
Well, I think it's a boundary situation there, you know? I really do. I think but I also think it's about how do we as human beings nurture and cultivate and create ourselves separate and apart from our identity at work.
Jill Griffin (02:26)
So I want everyone listening to this episode, we're gonna do a little we're gonna do a little therapy exercise where just for a moment, I want you to just sit with what it feels like when you take time off. It's your first, maybe it's the day before you're about to go out, it's a Friday before, and you're like, I'm off all week next week.
What do feel like? Are you anxious? Are you nervous? Are you telling people, ⁓ well, you can still reach out to me for XYZ? don't worry. I'll take care of that. Even though you're gonna be away or on vacation.
I've had to do a lot of coaching with staff around like you are off. That means we're not taking phone calls, we're not answering emails. In fact, take it off your phone.
Be done.
Molly Bierman (03:06)
I
mean, I think it really is dependent on if you're working in an agency or in like a corporate structure versus y owning your own business. I think there is a differentiator there.
Jill Griffin (03:15)
I think that's bullshit. I think with technology, we have created this facade that people need to be on and needed all the time. And it's bullshit. Unless you are a foreign diplomatic leader of an of an independent nation in this world, I don't think that you actually need to be on every day 24-7-365. I think that's bullshit.
Molly Bierman (03:39)
no, I'm not saying that. I'm not saying you have to be on twenty four seven, but there's some things that need to get done.
Jill Griffin (03:43)
We've created that.
We've created that. Like that so then when somebody goes on vacation and they can't and somebody can't get a hold of you, like there's a there's a problem. That's either a structural problem or it's a boundary issue.
Molly Bierman (03:56)
Yeah, no, I it I think we're saying the same thing. But I'm also sitting across from someone, aka U, that does work on your time off because there is no one to do X, and Z that need to get done.
Jill Griffin (04:09)
Already started prepping people in August. In August, there's some things that people better learn how to do because I'll be offline.
Molly Bierman (04:17)
Well
yeah. Well that and I think it's important. So let's back it up a little bit. Our most listened episode was since we started the podcast, has been out of office and to ourselves, which told us one thing that people are craving permission to step away. And so a lot of
what we wanna talk about today is what happens when you finally take the vacation, when you finally take the leave, when you finally block your calendar.
But you still have your work ethic, your drive, your grid around your career that comes with you. And when that happens,
I think there's two sides to the coin, right? You don't want to shame yourself and be like, I shouldn't be thinking about this right now. It's the same, like it equates the same way when people are people say to me, I can't meditate, because every time I meditate, thoughts pop into my head, right? Well, the whole idea of meditation is observing the thoughts and letting the thought pass. So I think there needs to be a really clear distinction of honoring the time you're taking off, but also not beating yourself up.
Jill Griffin (05:09)
Mm-hmm.
Molly Bierman (05:17)
if something pops up or if something feels comfortable handling. Because I am one person who I have felt consistently that I've done a pretty good job over the years taking designated time off. But if something were to pop up
that felt like I could handle and felt like I had bandwidth and I was comfortable. Why am I going to like sh why am I gonna put myself in this box and be like, no, I said I was gonna be off, so I'm not gonna do it. That to me feels more stressful than just doing the thing.
Jill Griffin (05:47)
So when you said in the beginning, I think we need to duh to differentiate between a business owner versus corporate versus whatever, I think that when you own your own business, which is the where we're at right now, we choose when we're on, when we're off, XYZ. For me, the the the time, but the time off.
Molly Bierman (06:02)
Pretty much always though, pretty much always.
Jill Griffin (06:07)
Is much more fluid because I take time off in a way that somebody who's working for someone who is an employee is not going to be able to. They don't have the flexibility I do. So when I am working on a vacation for an hour here, an hour there, or even when I go away for two weeks this summer, when I'm off off and I'm saying nobody need me, I'm still gonna check my email every day because it's self preservation.
But that doesn't mean that I have to like do any like handle it. It's more about me just kind of like deleting shit or forwarding things. but I feel like we don't protect the time of someone who has two weeks vacation a year, three weeks vacation a year. And
They don't have that flexibility. So when they get that one week off and we're saying, like, well, do you have the bandwidth to maybe still cover this thing? Like, I think that's a lot different than the bandwidth that we may have with the flexibility.
Molly Bierman (07:01)
Yeah, so I think it's a it's a great point. So many women, especially mothers, leaders, entrepreneurs, caregivers, whatever it is that you're doing in your day-to-day, taking time often feels wrong, hard, or almost impossible before it feels restorative. So when we think about how to nurture, we'll say, your time off, or how to honor your time off, what
How do we do it? How does somebody walk through that? And what are some of the, what have some of the face-down moments been for you when you have worked for someone else and maybe they've stepped in and said, hey, can you handle this thing while while you're away? Like what are tangible ways that people can start to really protect that energy?
Jill Griffin (07:50)
I mean, I go back to the a agency work. I I was on twenty-four seven and it was told to me pretty pretty early on, like that's what's expected. You're expected to be on call all the time. you know, I I ran twenty four seven programs, so I got calls in the middle of the night. I got obviously when I went on vacation, I didn't have maybe my agency phone. So there was a little bit of a separation, but they could still reach me on my cell phone and they did.
I feel like the most, this is kind of like a backwards answer to this, but the most profound statement that somebody made to me that really made sense to me is that every time that you're trying to level up, whether it's your skill set, whether it's a promotion, whether it's, you know, you go from working part-time to full-time, whenever you're or you're going back to work, let's say you're a stay-at-home parent and you're going back to work. So whenever there's like this shift, this transition, you're trying to level up in some way.
You need to make sure that you're resting as much as you're working. There has to be this balance. Like you have to rest as hard as you're working. And I think what happens is our culture rewards, like you're only supposed to rest once you get to a certain point. But if you're waiting for that, like you're big, you're just gonna wait till you're burned out, essentially.
Molly Bierman (08:45)
Okay.
Well, that's right.
Well,
one of the one of the questions that came up on this episode was do you ever find yourself earning rest instead of simply taking it? Two hands. Two hands on that raised for me. Because I do feel as though for a long time, and I'm getting a little bit better, that I needed to earn the whatever, right? There was a very clear like reward system happening. And although I think there's value in that.
I will say that my perception has shifted where I'm building in the proper amount of rest throughout all the days. Because what happens is that if I'm just banking that for when I go away, and trust me, I've been on both sides. Like I have worked
51 weeks out of the year and one week taken no phone, no connection to work, right? And that started a long, long time ago. And when I first started that, what I realized was that it took about four or five days into the vacation to even be able to chill, right? To be able to relax. And it took a lot of like.
kind of beating my head against the wall over and over over again, realizing that like these vacations and these trips were not necessarily feeling like rest to say, okay, I need to alter the other 365 first before those can actually feel beneficial. So I really don't think it's like time off situation. It more is like the time that I'm on, what do my other hours of the day look like?
Jill Griffin (10:25)
For me, some of this goes back to intuition. I I just feel like we have so many ways to artificially ramp us up and keep us on all the time. So, like, what I mean by that is
We have caffeine, we have energy drinks, we have the TVs and all these and all the, you know, the artificial light from all the tablets and you know, all these things that keep us tired and wired, which is really goes back to nervous system regulation of like how do we identify when we need a rest? Like it goes back to kind of that fundamental part of it instead of just pushing through all the time. I mean, I can't tell you the number of people, whether it's my friends, colleagues that are just, I'm just exhausted. I'm just exhausted. I'm a
I'm sorry, but like I that's not how I'm trying to live my life. And I when you were just talking about that, what came up for me, I don't know if I've shared this on the before, but when I was early in recovery, I was in my graduate program, I was working full time as a CNA overnight, so 11 to 7 a.m. Oftentimes I would pick up extra shifts, so I would actually work a double from 11 p.m.
to three p.m. I had to do math. but anyway, I would, I was just first of all, shift work screws up your circadian rhythm. It screws up your entire system, right? And I went to Puerto Rico with girls in recovery. This was like my first big trip, like in sobriety, paid for with my own money. It was like a big deal, right? We fly down there.
Molly Bierman (11:35)
Okay.
Jill Griffin (11:56)
I'm pumped to be able to like sleep through the night. I'm up all night all the time working. Like I'm actually gonna be able to enjoy the beach, be up during the day. I wanna go see some stuff. And there was a lot of conflict because I didn't wanna like go out and be out in the clubs until, you know, midnight or later. 'cause I wanted to rest.
Molly Bierman (12:16)
Yeah.
Jill Griffin (12:16)
Like but it it for me, it's like I paid all this money. I want it to be restorative. And like rest doesn't just mean like sleeping or laying down on the beach. For me, it's like, what am I filling up my bucket with that feels like joy and feels like play? that's restorative. rest is also like what's restoring you so that the work feels purposeful and like something you wanna do versus something you have to do.
Molly Bierman (12:39)
Yeah, I mean look, I think it's also into consideration how much women, men, but we're talking about specifically women carry and how do we fully unplug and how do we honor that shift?
when it feels like everything that we've been told has been to be on, right? So now you're in a position, kind of taking your story, is like you're in a position where you've had to be on at work and now your friends are expecting you to be on on vacation, right? And so laying the like expectations and the parameters around, okay, what is gonna work for me? And I think a lot of this really kind of stems from like needing to walk through dropping the guilt. And and that takes a lot of work. I mean
I can remember really early on in my recovery that there was a lot of pressure to be home for the holidays when I was young. And I and I understand why, right? Family misses you, especially when you've been in your active addiction and you haven't been able to show up for your family in many years. Like I can see both sides. And there was a and I was living in Maryland at the time and I was working in the restaurant industry. So for anybody who has ever worked the restaurant industry, like you don't really get holidays off.
Jill Griffin (13:19)
Okay.
Molly Bierman (13:46)
you know, there's a lot of holiday parties and things that you're doing to kind of support, other businesses when you're in the hospitality industry. And so I remember having to say a few times, like, as much as I would want to be there.
I ha I can't like I need to either make money or I also need to balance like what's worth my time. How am I gonna be able to just go up and back one day, you know, when I have to be back at work the next day. So again, some of these harder conversations had to take place of like how frequently am I trying to please someone versus honoring what I need. And I think
Jill Griffin (14:21)
That is where I
there's been so much conflict for me, even recently, professionally and personally, where I'm making a stand of like, this is actually what works for me, and other people having a problem with it. And then in parallel to that, it's like the work that I do with clients. It's like, well, this goes back to how comfortable are you with conflict?
Molly Bierman (14:42)
Mm-hmm.
Jill Griffin (14:43)
And and conflict doesn't mean an argument. Conflict doesn't mean ⁓ being ⁓ aggressive, but conflict does mean we are not ⁓ on the same page with this perspective, and hopefully we can have a conversation to get there. But I I personally don't have a problem with stating my needs.
Molly Bierman (15:02)
We know.
Jill Griffin (15:03)
Now sometimes I need to work on the the delivery of the statement of my needs because sometimes I could be so much on the on the side of like, I don't give a fuck what you think. Like this is what I need, that I sometimes need to get back into into alignment with other people. But I do think it creates conflict because a lot of people aren't comfortable with with making people upset. They feel selfish, they feel like, ⁓
It's wrong, like we talked about earlier. And I don't I'd rather avoid the conflict. But what happens is you're abandoning yourself every time you do that.
Molly Bierman (15:32)
Mm.
Well, I mean, I think that also kind of leads into like why does rest feel so hard? So many high achievers, both in family and in career, okay? Can be both. I mean, This one woman that I used to go to, Long story. Fun fact. I used to be a hairdresser, okay?
Jill Griffin (15:54)
Yeah.
Molly Bierman (15:55)
And there was another girl who I was apprenticing with at the salon. when I talk about high achieving women, I do not just mean high achieving women in business. I also mean high achieving women as, you know, moms and as caregivers. She's about to have seven kids, okay?
She has five. She has five and she just made an announcement with all five of her kids that she's pregnant with twins.
Jill Griffin (16:12)
That's a that's an achievement in and of itself, okay?
She's pregnant with twins.
Yikes. God bless.
Molly Bierman (16:21)
And so
when I think about high achievers, I just want to shout out all the moms. And obviously that means also the moms who have one you know, I'm not just, but for reference, she is, she is beasting it out here. I message her and I was like, I am unwell, even thinking about how you're gonna balance all that. So what does it feel like for
Jill Griffin (16:36)
I mean
Yeah.
Molly Bierman (16:43)
A woman who is either in business or in their moming, in their mom life, or both. What happens when there is no task, no list, no crisis, and no one needs something from you? Because there's these moments where you'll get that when you're away. And I have good examples where ⁓ my husband will say, Hey, I'm gonna take the kids back up to the house, enjoy your time on the beach for an hour.
Hour and a half. Just solo. For me, what? I can. I can do it at the beach. I could fall asleep. First of I can fall asleep anywhere. I could fall asleep while the woman's doing my eyelashes. I mean.
Jill Griffin (17:12)
You can't do that. You can't do that.
Do you fall asleep?
I love falling asleep
and ⁓ the dentist I'll fall asleep.
Molly Bierman (17:28)
That might be something we need to look at.
Jill Griffin (17:32)
I think maybe it's the the sound.
Molly Bierman (17:34)
No, I think it's probably because we need rest. Like our our nervous systems are in overdrive half the time. But I I do I am able to rest. But what I will say is for the people that can't or feel like, because I've also seen friends who are like, they can't do it. They're always thinking about or they're conversating about like what's going on up at the house, what are the kids doing? How do we slow that down? How do we embrace embrace the rest?
Jill Griffin (17:59)
You have to take you off
my suggestion would be you have to take bite-sized pieces. So if an hour feels like too much, then you need to take these little like mini vacations, right? ⁓ take the take the 10, 15 minutes without your phone. Sit I mean, especially with the weather nice outside, right? Take the walk outside without the phone. Go and sit outside with a book. Start reading, okay? Reading is a way to be like present and paying attention to something.
Molly Bierman (18:07)
Hmm.
Smart.
so true.
Jill Griffin (18:26)
but I do think it's more activities. I I ha I hate to say it, but especially with all this talk about ADHD and stuff, part of the attention span issue is the the fast moving everything in the phone. Like put the phone away.
Molly Bierman (18:38)
tell you that I had one of my more challenging days at work a couple days ago And we had this evening rendezvous with our neighbors. And sometimes they do this like Taco Tuesday. It's so fun.
And as soon as I as soon as I put work down and knew that I had to go to this, I was like, look, I'm leaving my phone at home. And I did for two hours. And you know what? Everyone was fine.
Jill Griffin (18:55)
Yeah.
It makes a difference. Like I I went for a hike with my son this weekend and I left the phone behind. Like or I put on airplane modes because I took pictures and stuff, but like I wasn't looking at the phone, like it wasn't. And it just makes a difference. I feel like
taking the that would be my number one suggestion would be taking those bite-sized pieces and put the phone away. Like take the 10, 15 minutes so you can build up to it. And also if you're a mom and it with your example specifically, I think some of it is trusting your partner or your family or whoever has the kids that like it doesn't need to look perfect, it just needs to look the the kids just need to be fed and and alive.
Molly Bierman (19:33)
Done. It just needs to be done.
Yeah.
Jill Griffin (19:36)
Yeah, I mean, a lot of times we criticize how other people are parenting or caring for our children when like let them have fun. Like I I just see so many p moms specifically, but like focus so much on this perfect childhood they want to curate for their children that like you're missing the point. The point is being messy and joyful and spontaneous to some extent. Like, you know, I think doing it your way all the time, some that's the exhausting part.
Molly Bierman (20:02)
Yes.
relatable.
Jill Griffin (20:03)
Yeah. I sat on my back porch this weekend or this week. I went out to dinner with a friend, got some ice cream on the way home. I sat outside in my robe. I got home, got in my jammies, my robe. Nobody was home. I was like, I felt like a queen. I was outside in my robe with my ice cream by my damn self, just quiet, listening to birds. I'm like, this was this must be what heaven is.
Molly Bierman (20:04)
But
Jill Griffin (20:29)
This is the most peaceful moment.
Molly Bierman (20:29)
It's funny that you say
it's fun it's funny that you say that because
My husband regularly goes on walks like early in the morning And we have a couple neighbors that are also up at the same time. And so he was walking up the hill and my my neighbor didn't realize that he was coming up the hill. And she was out there with her, you know, she's a mom of three, or mom of four. She's got her hands full all the time. and you know, what she was really enjoying was walking around with her bird.
app and figuring out what birds figuring out what birds were out in the wilderness and she was like it was so great
Jill Griffin (21:05)
So I so I feel like it's not about rest as much as it's about how are you reconnecting to your own joy and filling your cup? Because what's restful, I can have a really full weekend where it's not restful in terms of I'm taking naps, I'm like d laying down. Like last weekend I went on this big hike. I I had a full weekend, but it felt restful because it filled my cup in these ways that like I needed.
Molly Bierman (21:32)
Well, that's what I was trying to say at the beginning of the episode, where I I, you know, where I said essentially, if it feels okay to do, why fight to do it, right? So like you may feel like really restful, really joyful, and you're like, I can actually answer this message so I don't have to deal with it when I get back, right? So again, I think it's just being in tune. The whole reason we started this podcast, okay?
Being in tune with oneself, yes. But the whole reason we started it was because we had this narrative being like drilled down our throat that we needed to be balanced. And when we really came, when Jill and I had had countless conversations and really started to kind of tease out what that was, we realized that it actually just means whatever feels aligned in that moment.
Jill Griffin (22:06)
Mm-hmm.
Molly Bierman (22:18)
Which means that your balance is always going to be somewhat off, right? So if you're on vacation, your work is gonna feel less balanced. If you're working, your rest time is gonna feel unbalanced. But the the goal is how do we embrace the joy without postponing it until everything is done?
And that I think is the crux of some of the challenges that I have is that I feel like the rest is still the reward in a lot of ways, right? I do feel like the joy is the reward. So how do we not postpone that? How do we embrace it in all the smaller moments? You know?
Jill Griffin (22:46)
Yeah.
I would again but
I would again challenge people.
Go out and, you know, get messy with your kids at 7 p.m. even though they just took a bath. leave the dishes in the sink overnight. Just to, just to because I think some of it is like you're you're making sure you're completing everything before you can go have fun or go do this. And like you it's almost like an exposure therapy where you need to leave some things undone. Let it be messy. Let the people would be appalled at how I let my kids live sometimes. People would be appalled. But you know what? They're happy.
Molly Bierman (23:11)
Yes.
Totally. Totally.
Jill Griffin (23:23)
And are they dirty? They are. They are they are dirty.
Molly Bierman (23:26)
You should have seen Bodie Rollin
into the you should have seen Bodie Rollin into the dentist this week after school. I was like, this is frightening, what's happening here, but we're here. This is it. Okay, we're gonna do a rapid fire to wrap us wrap this episode up.
Jill Griffin (23:37)
It is what it is.
Wow,
I I wasn't prepared for this. Okay, go ahead.
Molly Bierman (23:44)
I feel most guilty resting when
You're up first.
Jill Griffin (23:50)
I almost want it my initial reaction was I feel guilty resting when I've already been resting. Like like when I've slept nine hours and now I'm laying on the couch again in the middle of the day, maybe taking a little nap.
Molly Bierman (24:02)
That's that's legit. I feel most guilty resting when I have not
Spent enough time with my kids.
Like if I haven't spent enough time with my kids like during the week, then I feel like I I struggle to like rest on the weekends. I feel like I want to do things with them activities. Next.
Jill Griffin (24:20)
Am I supposed to be d I don't see these?
Molly Bierman (24:21)
I'll do it. A sign
I'm overdue for a break is
Jill Griffin (24:25)
Me being irritated with everything and everybody is a good a good signal of yeah.
Molly Bierman (24:28)
Hmm. Relatable.
Yeah, when I just feel like I'm like trying to control everything. I know that I need to like just step take a step back.
Jill Griffin (24:36)
There's almost a visceral feeling internally where I'm like, you know what? I'm just and there are some days that I'm like, I need to tap out today.
We're not doing anything else because then I'm liable to just have to go and repair things if I just continue pushing through it, right? So it's like we're done here. something I used to think was lazy, but now I see as healthy.
Molly Bierman (24:51)
Yes.
I would say going for a walk, even if I can't get a workout in. Like I f I would feel like okay, going for a walk, like what is that gonna do? But honestly it really serves my mental health.
Jill Griffin (25:04)
say putting like the kitchen back together before I like go to bed at night. I used to be like, this means I'm kind of like I'm lazy and I'm kind of a POS because but now I'm like I I can't especially in in May Sember and the spring. Guys it is it is wild out here in the spring.
Molly Bierman (25:19)
Mesa.
The best thing that happens when I slow down is that I am able to
God, just like appreciate, I think, that I feel like I'm so much more rooted in gratitude than I am anything else.
Jill Griffin (25:36)
say I'm able to listen to my intuition. I have more kind of downloads, you can call that from the universe, God, whatever. I just feel more spiritually connected the more that I slow down. I need to have that quiet time in order to have that connection.
Molly Bierman (25:54)
One thing I'm gonna give myself permission to do this week is
Cut my work schedule a little short. We're embarking on a transition from school to summer. less structure around the kids' days. So play dates are upon us. Work schedule looks lighter. And it's gonna be okay.
Jill Griffin (26:13)
I'm
I'm giving myself permission not to stack my calendar in the summer, even though I'm taking my first two week vacation this summer, which feels aggressive. Yeah. But I'm not I'm trying to keep some space in my schedule. I already told the kids we'll be taking some like a beach day, like play hooky from camp one day. Like it's weather dependent. If it's nice, we're out of here. And everyone's just gonna have to deal with it.
Molly Bierman (26:22)
⁓ that's gonna be awesome. So great.
Spontaneous,
spontaneous, spontaneous summer, guys. Let's embrace it. So in closing, goal isn't to escape your life, it's to create enough space that you can actually enjoy it. If you're listening to this episode while you're doing dishes, answering emails, screaming at a kid, laughing with a kid, whatever's going on, we see you
Jill Griffin (26:40)
Spontaneous summer.
Molly Bierman (27:01)
it's not always gonna be perfect, it's gonna be messy, embrace the mess. and don't forget that we're always interested in your feedback. So look to our Instagram for some polls and posts and fun takeaways.
Reminder to sign up for our newsletter. If you are interested, please DM us or sign up through the show notes. And I'll leave you with this, or we will leave you with this. What would change if you stop treating rest like something you have to earn? Take some time to think about it, and we'd love to hear your feedback. Until next time. Bye.
