When Asking for Help Still Feels Like Work

Episode 55 with Jill Griffin & Molly Bierman

In this episode of No Permission Necessary, Jill and Molly explore the resentment that can build when help only shows up after someone asks for it.

They discuss the difference between receiving help and handing over true ownership, especially in the context of household responsibilities, parenting, work tasks, and the invisible mental load. The conversation highlights how silent scorekeeping, unclear communication, control, pride, and perfectionism can make asking for help feel even more complicated.

This episode is a reminder that asking for help is not just about getting a task done. It is also about learning how to communicate needs, share responsibility, and release control over the outcome.

• TRANSCRIPTION

  Molly Bierman (00:18)

  Guys, welcome back.

  Jill Griffin (00:19)

  Here we are.

  Molly Bierman (00:20)

  Alright, so the premise for this episode is the resentment that builds when help only shows up after you ask for it. And why having to ask is really the part that is the wear It's not asking for the help. It's having to ask.

  Jill Griffin (00:38)

  I mean, I think women really expect everybody to know the 18 things that we need in our head. This goes back to the mental load that we're carrying. however, there are just some obvious things. I I honestly think of your example of going through the airline security line.

  Molly Bierman (01:00)

  What happened?

  Jill Griffin (01:01)

  I don't know.

  You were doing everything.

  Molly Bierman (01:03)

  when I made the complaint to TSA?

  Jill Griffin (01:06)

  Yeah, well you were doing everything and nobody was helping you,

  Molly Bierman (01:08)

  I was solo.

  Sam was in a different line, which w that really wasn't so much the issue as as much as it was the TSA worker that I wanted to. I yes, I filed a complaint. If you haven't listened to the episode of where we unpack that, feel free to go back in the archives. But

  Jill Griffin (01:22)

  I mean, that's

  a complete stranger and you're like, This seems obvious that I need help. So like you go back to it being your spouse, a friend, a parent, like a family member. Like there are some times where it's like, I don't understand why I have to ask for this.

  Molly Bierman (01:38)

  Think it's more so about

  It's not the actual task. It's that we had to bring it up. That we had to say, hey, could you help me with?

  Folding the stroller down to put it into the frickin' security machine. Or carrying, 18 different things and then your child's clinging at your leg being like, pick me up. Is anyone around here? Other than me?

  Jill Griffin (01:50)

  Yeah.

  Trying to think of

  I'm trying to think of a recent example because I'm sure that I have one.

  Like sometimes what I'll do, and this is on me and my communication, but sometimes I'll be like, you know, XYZ needs to be done. And sometimes what I get in response is a suggestion of how it could be done or

  Kind of an acknowledgement of like, thanks for thinking of that. It's like, no, I'm bringing this up because I'm now, I'm basically saying, I'm giving you, I'm opening the door for an opportunity for you to step in and be the helper. And you're not reading that.

  Molly Bierman (02:41)

  But where do you think that where

  do you think it stems from that we don't want to ask for help? Because I feel as though

  Jill Griffin (02:48)

  That

  is, I don't think it's that you think it's not wanting to ask for help. I would love, please help me. I'm asking for help.

  Molly Bierman (02:54)

  I mean we lived a lot of our life where we should

  have asked for help. Okay, we I'm just gonna give the data points. We lived a lot of our life where we should have been raising the flag.

  Jill Griffin (03:03)

  Yeah, we weren't ready. We weren't ready then. We weren't ready for the help. We were still thinking we were having fun, you know. There's a you know

  Molly Bierman (03:11)

  Sure about that. I think there was pretty much a moment on a daily basis that I was like, this is no longer fun. I should probably ask for help.

  Jill Griffin (03:19)

  Yeah, there was a block there because I will say that yes, there were a lot of times I should have asked for help. And a lot of that time asking for help was not even on the menu of options available for the day. That was not one of the things that I thought of.

  Molly Bierman (03:36)

  I agree,

  but I think that what happens, at least for me, really thinking about this and teasing it out in real time, honestly. I'm just drawing this connection, is that so much of my identity has been based in figuring it out. So I don't think it's necessarily that we didn't know how to ask for help, but it was like this concrete attitude that, like, we're just gonna figure it out. We're gonna hustle it out, we're gonna figure it out, we're gonna.

  We're gonna figure it out when we get there. We're gonna pick up the pieces if they fall. Like there was this whole general theme around, I got myself in this problem, I'm gonna get myself out. So fast forward to being a more healthy version of ourselves. Part of it is I firmate. Part of it is that I can do it all. Kind of attitude. Part of it is if I ask for help.

  Jill Griffin (04:08)

  Yeah.

  Molly Bierman (04:24)

  I think I need to be cognizant of how the delivery goes. Because sometimes the delivery for help is like I'm already at my max. I'm already so frustrated that when I go to ask for help, it's it may not land. We're gonna put a it may not land.

  Jill Griffin (04:40)

  Yeah.

  This really goes back to being the project manager though, because and and carrying the invisible load. Because what I think happens is for me at least, I don't know that I need help until I'm past the point of the optimal time to ask for help. So so yeah, so what happens is there's two ways this shows up and it shows up a little bit differently at work.

  Molly Bierman (04:57)

  Right, that's what I'm saying.

  Jill Griffin (05:06)

  With my, I will say my work wife or my work husband, because I have two separate depending on what business I'm operating in. I will say that I cause sometimes I create these problems at work. Sometimes it's just my, well, let's just see what happens. Well, that creates some chaos for other people sometimes.

  Including myself. And so then what happens is when I feel like I have to ask for help, I don't know what the help is. So then I'm kind of, it's not just that I don't know, I don't know what I'm asking for. So sometimes it's like, hey, like I can't figure this out. Kind of I need you to. or sometimes I'm like,

  breadcrumbing the fact that I'm struggling with something. And I again, like I want them to like offer a solution because maybe I can't see it. Sometimes when we're so deep, especially at work for me, when I'm so deep in a problem, I can't sometimes see what the solution is. And I think that to me is the parallel to my act of using days because I've been to rehab.

  To me, it's like, well, that didn't work. So like that's not a solution. Like I didn't know what the solution was, you know? I didn't know how to fix it. So I think that's kind of the parallel. but at home with my husband, I expect him to just know what to do. Like it it's definitely a different level of I now one, I'll I do ask for a lot of help though, I think. And I and I do think he is much better at anticipating my needs than

  Molly Bierman (06:12)

  Mm.

  Jill Griffin (06:32)

  throw out 90% of husbands. I mean, he does, he does a lot, but there are some weeks where I'm like, I don't know, you didn't consider that this was like a thing we needed to figure out. I I thought that was obvious, but I guess not. And like that's when I have to watch my tone as well. Because it can come across like, are you a fucking idiot? Because I don't understand how we're not a

  Molly Bierman (06:45)

  But I think it

  Jill Griffin (06:56)

  This needed to be figured out.

  Molly Bierman (06:58)

  I really do believe at my core that it's not so much the idea of the help, right? So like splitting a task or saying like, hey, I need help with this or can you like run out and do this or whatever.

  I think it's at times the collaboration of the task because what I'm trying to do. Okay, this is we're on to something. And thank you, Taylor, for keeping us on track. I think that there is this situation.

  Jill Griffin (07:17)

  Yes.

  Molly Bierman (07:27)

  where I'm still trying to orchestrate the task and arrange the task and also give my two cents about the task rather than just rather than just handing it over and saying, okay, just like take it and run with it.

  Jill Griffin (07:37)

  separate problem.

  Well

  this also disempowers Sam because he doesn't wanna fucking do it when then you're in his ear telling him how he's doing it wrong.

  Molly Bierman (07:50)

  Well, it's also and it's not just him, right? So like how do I do that at at work? How do I, you know, there is this has to be this really intentional trust.

  Jill Griffin (07:59)

  And handing it off. Sometimes when I hand tasks off, I know, I know that it's not gonna get done the way I would prefer it's done. But that's where the whole the whole mantra of like done is better than perfect. Like, done is better than perfect, and we're just gonna move on.

  Molly Bierman (08:13)

  that's a good one.

  Jill Griffin (08:17)

  Where I was going when you were saying that whole thing is in today's example, I did ask for help. I said, I need you to figure out who's taking care of the dog while we're on vacation. I I I need that to happen. Now you're in a thought process with me about the people that could potentially I don't

  I actually don't want to be in this thought process. I don't wanna know who can't. I don't wanna know who I just want you to report back with the when it's done. all I need to know. It I mean, really.

  Molly Bierman (08:41)

  Okay, I have a good example of that too.

  But okay, let's talk about the dinner topic. Okay. Everyone can relate at base to the dinner topic, okay?

  Jill Griffin (08:59)

  every week what we're having for dinner every fucking day. Every day we have to feed ourselves. We have to feed the kids. Every day. Why am I the only one planning what we're eating every day? Because it requires a certain level of planning.

  Molly Bierman (09:15)

  And brain

  power. And so then I'll say, okay, what do you want to have for dinner? Mmm. This is how it'll go. Mmm. I don't know. What do you want for dinner? I don't wanna think about it!

  Jill Griffin (09:20)

  I can't stand it.

  Yeah.

  Molly Bierman (09:27)

  That's why I said it. So maybe I need to reframe how it guys, please write in with your tips and tricks. Maybe I need to say I am not capable of thinking about dinner for the next 18 years of these children's lives. Every day. I let's do the math. How many days is that? Because it's gonna overwhelm me.

  Jill Griffin (09:44)

  For real.

  It's a lot.

  It's a lot. I mean, they'll stop eating at home with you at some point in their teenagers anyway, but

  Molly Bierman (09:55)

  I don't know if they

  will. I don't know if they will.

  That's 6,570 days. Okay. So that is not really acceptable for me. So we need to rework how we're how we're saying it. And maybe I need to be proactive on days that are not my responsibility. Maybe that's a way. We don't know. We're gonna tease that out.

  Jill Griffin (10:03)

  Daunting. Daunting. Yeah, I mean, it's not gonna work.

  Well, how that shows up in my house is is my husband will will say, Well, I'll just do the grocery shopping this week. Great. We love that. We love that. We love that energy. What are we having for dinner? I'm just curious what the dinner plans are because that's what the shopping the the shopping is based on the dinner plans. Is it not?

  Molly Bierman (10:27)

  But you gotta provide a list.

  Yeah, it is.

  Jill Griffin (10:39)

  If you're going

  gr just no, I didn't think about that. We'll figure that out later. How are we figuring that out? That that stresses me out. What do you mean we're figuring it out later?

  Molly Bierman (10:45)

  But they think they me too. But should

  we just maybe shoot our shot? Maybe we need to do it it we maybe we need to do some exposure. And

  Jill Griffin (10:57)

  Or just do what

  I do and order meal plans and I just I have prepared meals that are delivered to my house.

  Molly Bierman (11:03)

  Or your backup. But maybe

  just see. Maybe just see what happens. Maybe we would be pleasantly surprised about what comes back in the cart. You don't know.

  Jill Griffin (11:11)

  I mean, he s there have been weeks where he'll be like, I'll just figure it out and then and then you have to

  Again, going back to done's better than perfect, you can't have an opinion. Well, I don't want that for dinner. No, that's not how this goes. like today. My kids are old enough. You your kids are a little bit younger. My kids are old enough. We have the family group text. The text went out this morning. I am going shopping today.

  If you have any requests for breakfast, lunch, dinner, or your camp snacks for next week, now is the time. Now is the time to put the order in.

  Because later on on Monday, when you say this isn't what I wanted for a snack, I'm going to remind you of this moment, this moment today, that you were requested to for your input and you chose not to because you wanted to watch a fishing video or do nails or whatever you wanted to do on your first day of summer. I don't hate on it, but you made a choice.

  That's how that's how that's gonna go.

  Molly Bierman (12:10)

  Okay, so help is the wrong frame. Help means it's still yours and they're assisting, right?

  Okay, so this is we're talking about. The goal is handing over ownership, not getting a hand.

  Jill Griffin (12:20)

  Yes, you're not my assistant. We are a partnership. This is equal now every day. We're not maybe 50-50, but like, yeah, I just think that.

  Molly Bierman (12:26)

  Yeah.

  Jill Griffin (12:31)

  then I I think the resentment comes in if you're not addressing it. Like I feel like, and not just because of this podcast, I just feel like in general I've had so many conversations over the years, especially with expanding my work life, like expanding into a second really big business and staff and everything. Like we really had to have conversations around what that help looks like and

  Molly Bierman (12:44)

  Mm-hmm.

  Jill Griffin (12:53)

  It requires being very consistent and also specific with your communication. And and again, I I can't not tie this back to the mental load. The things that we're thinking about and just have taken care of, like, I I I don't know. I think whoever the primary parent is that does

  brings the babies to the doctor's appointments and does all that. I feel like you just assume this natural role into the forms, the kids' forms, the school enrollment, all those things. And then that becomes your mental load. And I think sometimes we don't share what that is. And then at a certain point we get to this breaking point where we're like, why do I have to do this all? It's like, because no one knew that you were doing these things. Like sometimes that's what happens too. And that's just one example of of the

  the thing that you're holding, but I I think we're not communicating.

  Molly Bierman (13:40)

  But also I think it's the tally.

  It's the tally. And so, you know, even in the workplace, I'll say, kind of shifting away from family units, but even in the work, in your work unit, keeping tally of you didn't ask to leave early and now you're resembled at the person left early, or this person's taking on more of a workload, or you feel like you're taking on more of a workload, but you're not asking for help from any of your colleagues, or whatever that.

  rat races. And so now there's like this tally, this like unspoken tally. Actually, Michelle Obama does a really great clip on this whole thing and talks about it in her book. But you know, that there's this silent tally that's going on. And if you're and you're gonna get in trouble. You're going to get in trouble. It is going to create more divide than it is connection. And it's going to create more divide than it is the ability to trust and ask for help.

  Jill Griffin (14:20)

  yeah. You're keeping score. You're keeping score.

  Molly Bierman (14:33)

  essentially. So

  Jill Griffin (14:33)

  Yes.

  Actually, this happened to me recently at work. And and it was my own fault. I kept compla no, I I kept complaining about this this role and this task that I have been holding since we opened. And we've talked about this. When you open a business, you're straddling roles and you're just you're you're like the jack of all trades when you when you open up a business because you have your hands in everything.

  Molly Bierman (14:59)

  Yes,

  yes.

  Jill Griffin (15:01)

  We've

  gotten to the point where I don't need to be doing this role, but I I kept saying something like, I don't wanna be doing this anymore.

  I don't want to be doing this anymore. And nobody was kind of like reflecting back to me what the what the solution was, right? Meanwhile, I have this consultant like helping me with some of this task. And all of a sudden, one day, like this is recent within the last month, I was like, I'm not doing this anymore. Like starting today. Like I'm I'm just not doing this anymore. And this other person who this is what they do for a living, I'm they're gonna do it going forward.

  And after I did that, this huge weight lifted. But in the midst of like the last couple of months, it was like I was getting resentful that nobody was acknowledging what a pain in the ass this was. But it's like, but it's like, but they wouldn't know, like, yeah, I'm complaining about it, but like, I don't know. how would they know the solution if I'm the one that's doing it?

  Molly Bierman (15:44)

  I do think Right.

  But I think we're also both in a in a really nice position to say, I don't really think I want to work with this person anymore, or I don't really think I wanna be holding this job responsibility, right? Like I do think that there is flexibility there. And the thing that stands in the way of flexibility is ego and pride. Period.

  Mic drop on that. Okay.

  Jill Griffin (16:15)

  Gotta check the ego and the pride at the door, you know what I'm thinking of right now is that it's so weird, and I can't recite it, so don't ask me to. But the the prayer, the Francis of Sissy prayer, is that what it's called? The Saint Francis prayer. Like that just keeps coming up to me of like, you know, basically do the opposite of what like.

  Molly Bierman (16:28)

  Yeah, the Saint Francis Prayer.

  Jill Griffin (16:39)

  we're saying. It's like

  Molly Bierman (16:41)

  Okay.

  Make me an instrument of your peace. I pulled it up. Where there is hatred, let me so love. Where there is inju injury, pardon, where there is doubt, bring faith, where there is despair, bring hope, where there is darkness, bring light, where there is sadness, bring joy.

  Jill Griffin (16:47)

  Yes.

  I don't know, for some reason it's just like where there's pride and ego, bring bring some humility. We need to bring some humility in.

  Molly Bierman (17:03)

  And to

  really, you know, bring some humility in, we have created a nice rapid fire for this episode, which I think is gonna humble us really quick because it looks pretty intense.

  Jill Griffin (17:10)

  boy.

  Molly Bierman (17:14)

  So guys, rapid fire is fun. We'll each ask a question. There's quite a few. So I feel like one each. And we'll see what we we come up with. But I would encourage you, if you're listening, to also answer the rapid fire question yourself. Okay. The last thing you had to ask for that you wish you would hadn't had to.

  Jill Griffin (17:29)

  Yes.

  Forgiveness.

  Molly Bierman (17:35)

  Nice. That's amazing. We're gonna do a timer. No less than no more than five seconds. That's the point of a rapid fire. You can't you can't be thinking on it. I know you were good. I'm holding myself accountable. Go.

  Jill Griffin (17:43)

  I was within two seconds. I

  shouldn't have to ask for this, fill in the blank.

  Molly Bierman (17:50)

  Help with grocery shopping.

  How many times do you ask before you just do it yourself? Me two. I was gonna say one immediate.

  Jill Griffin (17:55)

  Probably one and a half.

  I mean

  de especially depending on what it is.

  Molly Bierman (18:05)

  The ask you've rehearsed in your head and never said out loud. that's okay, read it back.

  Jill Griffin (18:09)

  Wait, it's my turn. the ask you rehearsed in

  the ask you've rehearsed in ne in your head and never said out loud.

  Molly Bierman (18:17)

  I feel like I say them all out loud, honestly. I don't feel like I d I don't ask.

  asking for help feels like

  Jill Griffin (18:24)

  A burden sometimes

  Molly Bierman (18:25)

  That body movement said it all. Like the ick.

  Jill Griffin (18:29)

  The ick. Feels

  like the ick sometimes. Like dude. S especially when it's something you we sh you should just know to do.

  Molly Bierman (18:37)

  Right. It took so good.

  Jill Griffin (18:40)

  My work wife is on point though, I'll tell you that. She's always anticipating the needs. That's what we need. thank you.

  Molly Bierman (18:44)

  Cause she's a woman.

  Yeah.

  Jill Griffin (18:50)

  Last time you got thanked for something you only did because no one else would.

  Molly Bierman (18:54)

  cooking dinner? I don't know. Probably cooking dinner? no one. A sure just ask me that never actually meant it.

  Jill Griffin (18:57)

  Mm-hmm.

  No one else is doing that.

  I do that with work a lot. I'll be like, yeah, sure, just call me. We'll f tease that out. And then when they follow up, I'm like, that was

  Molly Bierman (19:13)

  I don't really want to do that. Okay.

  Jill Griffin (19:14)

  Ha

  Molly Bierman (19:15)

  Europe.

  Jill Griffin (19:15)

  You asked

  you asked they did it and you were still mad. Why?

  Molly Bierman (19:20)

  Because it wasn't done in the way that I thought it should be done. I mean, this is everything we're talking about, okay? When I, you know, ex give explicit instructions to, you know, support a process or support a transition or in my work life or in my personal life or whatever it is. And it looks botched in my opinion. the favor you asked for that you ended up managing anyway.

  Jill Griffin (19:24)

  Ha ha ha.

  Mm.

  The kids' camps forms. They are still at the doctor's office waiting to be picked up. Because they required multiple steps. I gave them to them immediately that day. The doctor's office is gonna call you. They have questions about the forms. I'm I'm not really sure what what why am I the only one that can answer these questions? It was the wrong form, then I had to go fill out the other form, and now they're they're now they're still there.

  Molly Bierman (19:48)

  Mm. Mm-hmm.

  Yep. They might make it. They're probably close today though, because it's a holiday.

  Jill Griffin (20:18)

  Better to ask or seethe quietly.

  Molly Bierman (20:20)

  Better to ask.

  One thing you've stopped asking for

  Jill Griffin (20:21)

  Depend depends on the spiritual

  fitness of the day, to be honest with you. Some days we might wanna just keep our mouth shut and keep it moving. That that may be for both of us.

  Molly Bierman (20:30)

  my goodness.

  So true. One thing you've stopped asking for entirely.

  Jill Griffin (20:35)

  Ha ha ha.

  Molly Bierman (20:37)

  Permission. I got it for you.

  Jill Griffin (20:40)

  Permission? Definitely.

  Somebody said, Can I just tell the story last night? We're at dinner. And somebody said to my son, who's eight, no permission necessary. And like, I don't know, maybe he knows that's the name of the podcast that I'm on, maybe not. And he goes, That just means I get to do whatever I want, right? Everyone looked at me. Yep, that is exactly what it means. That's what mommy tries to embody every day.

  Molly Bierman (21:08)

  Guys, thanks for a great episode. We I don't know. I feel like you can be grateful and resentful at the same time, somehow, some way. But, you know, we gotta we gotta really open up, open up the floodgates, be able to ask for help, be able to let it lie in the way that it's done by the other person. It's something that is an ever-growing process for Jill and I.

  Jill Griffin (21:18)

  Absolutely.

  Molly Bierman (21:33)

  So, permission to ask for help and not try to control the outcome. Hope you guys have a great rest of your Tuesday. Until next time, tune in and get excited. We're gonna be shaking things up here a little bit towards the end of summer for no permission necessary. We value you, we appreciate you, and we'll see you next time.

  Jill Griffin (21:56)

  Peace.