Move to Heal: How Alexandria Hershman Is Transforming Recovery Through Fitness and Community

Feb 24

Episode 35 with Alexandria Hershman

In this episode of No Permission Necessary, Jill Griffin and Molly Bierman sit down with licensed therapist and Move to Heal co-founder Alexandria Hershman for a powerful conversation on recovery, community, and generational healing.

Alexandria shares the deeply personal story behind Move to Heal, a nonprofit organization that combines group fitness and peer support meetings to reduce isolation and make mental health care more accessible. Inspired by her father’s long-term sobriety journey, Allie has helped build a rapidly expanding program that now serves thousands of participants each month across multiple states.

Together, they explore:

The role of exercise in treating depression and anxiety
Community-based recovery and family systems healing
Growing up with a parent in recovery
Postpartum mental health and identity shifts
Boundaries, entrepreneurship, and sustainable ambition

This episode highlights how movement, connection, and honest conversation can reshape recovery, not just for individuals, but for families and entire communities.

Learn more about Move to Heal: http://www.movetohealct.org
Connect with Allie Hershman:
• Instagram: movetoheal.ct
• LinkedIn: Alexandria Hershman
• Facebook: Alexandria Hershman

Jill Griffin (00:00)
Welcome to No Permission Necessary. Today we have Allie Hirschman, a licensed therapist and the co-founder of Move to Heal, which is a nonprofit that provides accessible mental health services, fitness and wellness support to people throughout the country. She serves as the head of the therapy department as she oversees clinical programming and supports the therapists across multiple locations. Please join us today. We had such a great time talking with Allie. She's a wealth of knowledge and we hope you enjoy today's episode.
Molly Bierman (01:36)
it. Allie, we're so grateful to have you on. What a pleasure and honor, honestly. I've heard so many wonderful things.
Allie Hershman (01:42)
Well, thank you guys for having me on. This is such an honor to be here. I'm so excited and I really love what you guys are doing with this podcast. So very excited to be here.
Molly Bierman (01:52)
So.
Jill Griffin (01:53)
So tell us a little
bit about what you're doing with Move to Heal. I know that's the main thing we wanna talk about here today, but just kind of your background in general, maybe a little bit about how it started. I know there's a lot of people listening that don't know, and it's also throughout the Northeast now, right? Yeah.
Allie Hershman (02:08)
Yes, yeah, we
are expanding on and we actually just opened our first location in Florida as well, which yeah, it's awesome, which I can get into. But I'm a licensed therapist and my background is in psychology and I work a lot with individuals and couples facing anxiety, depression, postpartum, PTSD and
Jill Griffin (02:15)
Ooh.
Molly Bierman (02:15)
⁓
Allie Hershman (02:33)
Back in grad school, so this is now dating back to like 2014, 2015, I was going to school in Boston and I was taking these spin classes and I just loved it. It was like 45 minutes where I could just, me, the bike, the music, it was like so therapeutic. And afterwards I just would always notice, you know, people would walk out of class and they'd be chit chatting and you know, making friends and just having this.
conversation and I thought to myself there's such magic in working out and what that does to your brain chemistry and then the after after that right and you know sometimes people would go for coffee or dinner or walk or whatever after spin class and I'm like I just feel like there's something more to this so I ended up writing my thesis in grad school on exercise and therapy and combining the two and you know then
I stepped out into the real world and I had to get, you know, job, make money, get my hours for my license. And this idea kind of just faded into the background. And in 2021, my dad, Ethan Hirschman, at the time, I think he was 29 years sober. He's still sober today. So, you know, he's now like 34 years sober. But he said to me, hey, remember that thesis that you wrote in grad school?
he at the time had a gym down in Greenwich and he's like, what if we take that idea to this gym? And him alongside his ⁓ partner, Colleen Delaney, who was his gym partner down in Greenwich, she ran the classes. He would do kind of like the admin things and I would do the therapeutic part of this. And we called it Move to Heal. So it was for anyone, it's open to anyone and obviously still is.
but that was looking to come work out and then have a support meeting afterwards where we had a different topic every week. And we started to see the magic come to life within the first couple of classes that we ran. And that's kind of where all of this had started. And we've been up and running since 2021. We are now in Connecticut, Rhode Island, Massachusetts. Like I said, we just opened our first location in Florida and we have anywhere between 2,500 to 3,000
participants coming to our meetings and workouts every single month now. And in addition to that, we also offer free or subsidized gym memberships. We offer free therapy with a licensed therapist in your state and a free 16 nutritional program that's really focused around intuitive eating and kind of healing relationships with food.
Molly Bierman (04:54)
Ow.
Jill Griffin (05:10)
I love this so much. mean, when you, yeah. yeah.
Molly Bierman (05:11)
This is wild. I didn't realize how big it was. I didn't know
the inception either. I didn't do my research and I'm kind of glad I didn't because you're hearing me my raw reaction here
Jill Griffin (05:22)
Well, there's so many parallels too, because when you were saying that, it reminded me of my thesis, which was around the neurobiology of addiction and around meditation, exercise and nutrition and how those things influence people's recovery. So there's like such synergy like between all those things. And I'm a big proponent as a therapist, when we meet with the clients, and I'm sure you noticed this, that most people are missing the physical exercise component.
Allie Hershman (05:36)
Absolutely.
Mm-hmm.
Jill Griffin (05:49)
And there's
so much research out there about how exercise alone is just as effective as an antidepressant. Do you want to talk about that a little bit?
Allie Hershman (05:55)
Yeah. And, and
well, it's, I'm so glad you brought that up because, you know, now that we've been around since 2021, we could really see not just the magic of Move to Heal, but how it's affecting people's lives. And the amount of people that have now been able to get off a medication because of this program and what they're doing, especially with the physical part of this, it's amazing, you know, and, people that
You know, something that I love about move to heal is I think a gym can be a little bit intimidating sometimes and even taking that first step to walk into a gym or especially a gym class where like you might not know it, you know, anybody. And there is such an inviting factor about move to heal where it doesn't matter if you're an avid gym goer or you haven't been to the gym in a decade or ever. You can get into that class and complete that workout, especially because
We have these amazing coaches who just make sure everybody is catered to in a way that they can modify the workout, they can push the workout however they want. And that in itself, the amount of people that are like, I would have never gone to a gym if it wasn't for move to heal. That too is so cool to me, because you know, like you said, Jill, there is just so much research behind what moving your body and that physical part can do in terms of our mental health and you know, brain chemistry and
all that good stuff.
Molly Bierman (07:21)
I feel there's a couple of things I'm thinking about. One is I made homemade fried wontons last night. And so I feel like I'm not at all on either of your levels. Okay. So there was that. They were so good, but, and I did fry them in avocado oil. Okay. So that's a plus for me.
Allie Hershman (07:32)
That sounds amazing.
Jill Griffin (07:38)
I made
chicken cutlets in vegetable oil yesterday. All right, so let's just level the playing field.
Allie Hershman (07:42)
you
Molly Bierman (07:42)
You use vegetable?
Allie Hershman (07:45)
you
⁓
Molly Bierman (07:48)
But the other thing that I'm thinking about is just, so I'm a systems person and I'm a family systems person, like in my core. And I look at things through the lens of like a, you know, a family system healing. And I just love the part about your dad. I mean, I just keep thinking about how that, maybe if you could share a little bit about that, like what have been.
What have been the ups and downs of that journey? Like doing it with a family member and, you know, having different probably opinions and different personality types and, you know, just the growth of something that you guys were really passionate about, but naturally, you know, personality stuff comes up, especially with families. So I'm interested to know a little bit more.
Allie Hershman (08:32)
100 % and I will say this to my mom is a part of this. One of my sisters is a part of this. So like we're really like intertwines here. Yes. And on most days. Yeah, and it's so interesting working with family I have to say but it is I'm so grateful for it. And I think that, you know, to be able to give each other raw, honest
Molly Bierman (08:39)
Whoa. Okay, you're in it. Yeah.
Jill Griffin (08:43)
You really like each other.
Allie Hershman (08:59)
hopefully productive It has brought us so much closer, but I do think it's important to share, and this is, my dad is extremely open about his sobriety and his journey. Him and my mom have been together since they were 16. And my dad is recovering from... ⁓
alcohol and crack cocaine. when I was two, my dad was very, very, very deep in his addiction. And my mom basically said, listen, it's either me and Allie or you got to go. And I always get emotional when I talk about this, but, and he's been sober ever since that day. So to go from that, what was that now? I'm 34, so 32 years ago to having
Move to heal which is helping other people get sober stay sober and have Longevity with their family and have a closer relationship with their family. It's so full circle and you know when we started move to heal we didn't We didn't necessarily do it for those we did it because we really thought that this could work and that it could help one other person or what one other family or save one life and
The fact that it's kind of snowballed and grown into this beautiful thing with family and friends and people and community, it's more than we had ever even could have imagined, to be honest with you, what it's become today. And we have big plans for the future too, but just being able to be present in this moment today and grateful for all that's come from that, it's amazing, truly.
Jill Griffin (10:36)
curious about your experience growing up with a parent in recovery, because we've done several podcasts. know, Sarah Benton has the book Parents in Recovery. We talk, Molly and I, and are open about our own recovery. But I don't think we've ever had somebody, you know, who has a parent in recovery, like from childhood as an adult now. how did you know about that as a child growing up in the house? Like, how was that? Can you talk a little bit about that?
Allie Hershman (11:00)
Yeah,
yeah, absolutely. So, you know, I was too, you know, when he got sober. So I don't remember anything before that. my dad was so open about his recovery. Like, I knew what AA meetings were, NA meetings were. I knew that my dad was sober. I knew why he was sober. And, you know, I don't know when that talk really comes when you talk about alcohol and drugs, but I just remember
When that time came in my life, maybe like early teens, he was so open with me about it. And that I truly believe has helped me so much and has shaped so much of the choices that I made later on in my adult life. I'm really grateful for that. And I talked to lot of my clients about that too, know, the openness and how I think that being open and being honest and being really proud in your recovery can really help your kids.
with those types of conversations and the decisions and choices that they make later on in life.
Jill Griffin (11:59)
It's such a personal decision. We talk about that all the time. know, Molly and I, like how much you share. It's like, that's how I am with my kids. My kids can tell you, my daughter can probably explain recovery better than most adults at this point. And she's 10, so.
Molly Bierman (12:00)
I feel.
Mm-hmm.
But I also think how like, you know, you're I grew up in Connecticut too. And my mom and I talk a lot about the we're interviewed on the family recovery process. And my dad has also been sober since I was four after being dry for 10 years and then picked back up when I was four years old. And it was kind of a similar like intervention situation. And, you know, I really think about
Allie Hershman (12:15)
Yeah.
Molly Bierman (12:39)
being kind of loud and proud about your recovery in a very status driven arena. And, and that's, you know, if you grew up on the shoreline in Connecticut, whether that was Fairfield County, New Haven County or beyond, I mean, there was a lot hush hush, keep it in the house, judgment, fear of what other people But I was, I will say, you know, what really attracted me,
even when I couldn't get sober myself, were the people that were loud about it. Like I remember you know, moms who weren't afraid to talk about it and peers that weren't afraid to talk about it. And, I just feel like there's such a...
vulnerability and connection that offers so many people becomes this ripple effect. And my mom, this one line stands out when she was interviewed about it. She said, we weren't the only ones going through it, but I was the only one talking about it. And that's what it felt like for her. You know, I was very young when I started going through my struggles. This was back in 2005. There was not really a whole lot of young people, you know, there was young people recovery, but it wasn't as prominent as this now naturally.
Jill Griffin (13:41)
Mm-hmm.
Allie Hershman (13:43)
Mm-hmm.
Molly Bierman (13:45)
So I just, you know, there's just so much value in what seems like really paved the way and your dad making a mark on you. I mean, I have to imagine that that probably naturally kind of impacted your decision making of going into help other people and be a therapist. I mean, I don't know if that did, but it seems like the natural kind of progression.
Allie Hershman (14:04)
Yeah, absolutely. And I started my career working doing inpatient outpatients and substance abuse clinics and methadone clinics. I attribute a lot of maybe that maybe I was more curious about it, or I just felt like there's, I know that people can get sober and they can stay sober. like,
Maybe that was just more subconscious. I'm not really sure, but I'm so glad before I opened my private practice, I did have a lot of experience in that field. And to your point too, Molly, I do want to say that, I don't know if you guys see this too, but I'm seeing this so much more, especially with like college aged kids and older too, but like sober curious, and certain places that, like the mocktails and the things like that, and just people not being so,
Molly Bierman (14:47)
Mm-hmm.
Allie Hershman (14:55)
not seeing as much drinking I guess as maybe in the past but I don't know that's kind of I'm seeing some of that with a lot of my younger clients ⁓ which is
Molly Bierman (15:03)
Definitely. It's.
Jill Griffin (15:04)
There's definitely a
lot of research around people choosing not to drink, not because they're alcoholics, but because of like fitness goals or, you know, different reasons. Like they don't feel good. They don't want to be hung over. Right. And so there is, there's a lot of research around alcohol sales, right. Going down since Coke, like people have really embraced more of like, I don't need to have alcohol to have fun.
Allie Hershman (15:21)
Yes.
Molly Bierman (15:27)
And there's a mocktail on every menu. mean, I was out with a girlfriend of mine and her husband. She's a psychiatrist. She doesn't really she doesn't really like to drink. And we talked about that a lot. Like, there's just so much more room for people to make a decision if they don't want to drink. Whereas before there was really it was like you're either drinking a Coca Cola or a seltzer or you were drinking booze. You know, I mean, that's and, you know, coming from
Allie Hershman (15:49)
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Molly Bierman (15:55)
So like I never took a legal drink in a bar. I got sober when I was 21. And so, you know, it's really all I've ever known is don't get me wrong. I drink a lot, but like not legally and not really politely or kindly, you know, so I just feel like more of just like the bottle of vodka smeared off in someone's bag. See?
Allie Hershman (16:06)
Mm-hmm.
Jill Griffin (16:10)
more of the messy, sloppy variety.
Yeah, you two took different paths
from your father's recoveries. You took different paths, it sounds like. We learned different lessons.
Allie Hershman (16:22)
you
Molly Bierman (16:24)
my God, the amount of out, it, ugh, first of all, so gross and I don't even like the taste of it. I truly drank for effect. We know that to be true. but you know, I think that there is so much more openness and curiosity around it. And, you know, for people who might be listening, there's a couple of things that, you know, a couple of themes that I wanted to, to point out. One is, is that yes, curiosity around
you know, what sober looks like can be obtainable and doesn't have to be concrete. Right. So when I'm working with a client or family who are really experiencing some curiosity around it, or are there certain behaviors that are perpetuating a lifestyle that no longer serves me? That's a really, that's a really great entry point, you know. But I'll also say that you really need a team of professionals around you that know how to navigate that.
And so that kind of brings me to the next theme that I really want to highlight here because Ali, just like, was music to my ears and I know it was music to Jill's when you said you got your stripes essentially in agency work and there are so many people that are coming out of college that think they can go into private practice with really no experience. And so can you maybe share a little bit on how
Allie Hershman (17:31)
Mm-hmm.
Molly Bierman (17:35)
that shaped you, kind of that experience and what you felt like you really needed to earn first or learn or grow in whatever capacity before you stepped into your own thing.
Allie Hershman (17:46)
I, that's great question because I think that, you know, you go into grad school and you think, well, some I did, I'm like, private practice. And yes, private practice was my end goal, but I am so grateful that I wasn't able to just get out of grad school and start in private practice. I needed to have that experience. needed.
to learn from my clients, learn from my supervisors, learn from my peers. That type of work was so important to me. And I'm not gonna lie, it's not the easiest work. There were times where I remember feeling really overwhelmed or I'm like, I don't know what I'm doing at times. I'm like, just got all this education and now you kind of step into the real work. It's not always the same. It's like, yeah, I have some of that knowledge, but once that hands-on experience comes,
Molly Bierman (18:29)
Yes.
Allie Hershman (18:36)
It taught me equally as much or if not more than kind of sitting down with in the classrooms and with the books. And I'm really grateful for that experience. think if you are a therapist or you're heading into private practice, you got to get that type of experience to really kind of just understand people and different, you know,
types of people and backgrounds and ways in which you can help. And like I said, I really learned so much from the people that I was working with and my supervisor and just having that type of support was crucial for me during those early stages of my career.
Molly Bierman (19:10)
you
Well, I also think that brings up the point of people not understanding supervision, clinical supervision is for the modalities that you're working towards, right? But agency supervision is how to cohabitate in a team, in a mid-level management system, how to create the skillsets if you do want to grow from a private practice to a group practice to a move to heal, right? You know, having the ability to understand how business is structured.
And I think for a lot of individuals, they don't get that experience and then they feel lost in business. Because if you are running a private practice, you essentially are running your own business. And so if you don't have the tools and the skills from that agency level, whether that's, you know, we've talked a lot about this on our podcast, which is maybe you've never seen a performance improvement plan. Maybe you've never written somebody up. Maybe you've never.
Allie Hershman (19:54)
Mm-hmm.
Molly Bierman (20:08)
had a hard conversation with a colleague, right? And I'm not saying that those things have to happen in order for you to be successful, but there is a level of kind of grit and a level of what's a crisis versus what's not a crisis. And so, you know, I also worked inpatient, worked outpatient, worked in Medicare, kind of all the levels, ran some sober living houses, really back in the day, which was totally chaotic and crazy. But, you know,
Allie Hershman (20:22)
Absolutely.
Molly Bierman (20:35)
Part of what that really taught me is that when a family or a client reaches out.
I can really quickly tease out and diffuse and be a strong kind of pillar for them to say whether this is a crisis or not a crisis. And that's impactful. So maybe, you know, sharing with us a little bit in terms of move to heal, knowing that you probably do hear, see, and are exposed to individuals that are going through some level of more acute challenge. ⁓
Allie Hershman (20:47)
Hmm.
Sure.
Molly Bierman (21:06)
but that you become an entry point for individuals. How does Move to Heal navigate that? How do you work with getting people the proper support? Because sometimes obviously outpatient therapy or a Move to Heal class isn't enough for somebody.
Allie Hershman (21:15)
Yeah.
Yes.
Yeah, absolutely. So our support meetings are not run by therapists. They are just support meetings. And we make that really clear. They are a place where you can come and you can talk whether it's on the topic of the day or just something that's kind of on your heart or on your mind. And then if you're feeling like, you know what, I kind of want more
you know, individual care or time with a therapist, you'd reach out to me, I run our therapy department. We have 13 different therapists throughout the different states and we get you connected within 24 hours. That is so important to me because I think that, and I'm sure you guys, you know, know this and have experienced this, it can sometimes be a very drawn out long process. And I think
Molly Bierman (21:53)
Wow. Okay.
Right.
Allie Hershman (22:08)
let's say, you know, someone who is facing depression and struggling with depression, it can be hard enough just to get out of bed and, you know, brush your teeth and get showered, let alone go online, research therapists, email, insurance, this and that. I want this to be as seamless and accessible as possible. And then if, you know, the client is deemed that they need a higher level of care, we have really cam, for example, great connection that
Molly Bierman (22:17)
Okay.
Right.
Allie Hershman (22:34)
I can call him and say, this is what this client's facing. And he's like, no problem. And he could usually find a bed for someone within 24 hours or an IOP or something like that. So the relationships to that move to Heal has with people like Cam, for example, really, really important. And he's so wonderful and such an asset to our team.
Molly Bierman (22:46)
Yeah.
Yeah, I feel like that's such, know, really when, when you have gone through going back to agency work or connections, schooling, kind of developing your network. I was actually listening to somebody the other day talk about how your network really expands. Not until your forties, right? After you've really created those relationships in your mom groups, in your social circles, through your husband's job or your wife's job through.
family, right? Like it just keeps expanding and expanding and expanding. And so, you know, the ability for you to continue to, to reach a wider net is really a by-product of the network that you have created. Essentially people refer to people as much as people maybe don't love that or don't agree with it because they want to feel like
both people and ethics align, especially in our space, the reality is that people refer to people. And so how those relationships have been cultivated for you sounds like it's been a really organic process.
Allie Hershman (23:53)
Absolutely. speaking of just, you know, the agency work that I was doing before my private practice, I still talk to a lot of my colleagues and refer people. And I have a couple that actually are move to heal therapists because, you know, one was in Massachusetts, Connecticut. Like it really is, you know, those relationships that you build. it's also there is really that
Jill Griffin (24:00)
Mm-hmm.
Molly Bierman (24:06)
⁓ nice.
Allie Hershman (24:14)
the intensity of those jobs sometimes can also really bond you with the people that you are working with because it's not always really relatable to a lot of people what you're kind of experiencing day in and day out, but your coworkers alongside of you, they become such support. I really, again, like that type of work, I really value those relationships. And I love that you mentioned that.
Jill Griffin (24:38)
I mean, speaking of referrals, I can say that we've referred clients to Move to Heal. And I can tell you, my clients' personal experiences has been, you we talked a lot about sobriety. And one of the hesitant, like things that clients were hesitant about going is like, well, I'm not sober. I drink. So can I go to these meetings? And recovery is such a broad term. And Move to Heal really encompasses that, where I've had people that have gone to those meetings.
Molly Bierman (24:56)
Mmm.
Jill Griffin (25:05)
And a woman was struggling with the aftermath of a miscarriage. And then somebody else is struggling with depression. And, you know, the only reason they've got out of bed this week is to come to this meeting. And then somebody else is struggling because they're two days sober. And like the beauty in everyone struggling with different things, but being able to put it out on the table and feel like, okay, I can be supported in this. And then we're to go move our bodies so we can kind of process this emotions. You know, I, I talk all the time about like stuck energy.
Allie Hershman (25:26)
Yes.
Yeah.
Jill Griffin (25:33)
And that's one of the things that I described to clients is like, you if you're not moving your body, that energy, that those emotions are just stuck energy and we're not processing through to like a solution on the other end, because a lot of times as a therapist, we can facilitate some of this work with the clients, but at the end of the day, they have to move their energy. We can facilitate that movement, but we have to, you know, and I think the combination of talking about something and that really scary part of putting it out there and then
Allie Hershman (25:40)
Yes.
Jill Griffin (26:00)
I'm gonna go do this thing that I've never done before that I have to now change the way my brain is thinking to what my problems are to, shit, if I don't pay attention, I'm either gonna fall or lose my balance or really hurt myself or I need to shift my perception and my attention towards this thing. And also it's hard. I'm losing my breath and breathing really hard. we have to do hard things to get through hard things. And I think like...
Allie Hershman (26:17)
Right.
Okay.
Yes.
Jill Griffin (26:26)
I, I, the clients that I've had that have gone there, I know some of them that still go that are no longer clients of mine. We've referred friends there. like I said, my husband goes to a move to heal gym. like, you know, he's always also referring people there. but they've had really profound healing from, from going to that. And it's, it's opened up their, their perspective around exercise and how useful it is. Like it's,
Allie Hershman (26:42)
Yeah. Yeah.
Mm.
Jill Griffin (26:50)
You know, you talk about the magic, but it really is. It's like we talk about moving muscle change of thought, that's putting it into action.
Allie Hershman (26:56)
Yeah, absolutely. you know, I really can't thank you enough for referring people because that's like the biggest way. It's just, and so many people don't know about it. And then they're like, wait, like, this is amazing, you know, that we, have these things that, are offered. And one of the things Jill, that I really liked that you mentioned is just people with so many different backgrounds. And I remember this was probably, we're six months into this, I was down at the gym in Greenwich and
There was a mother who was there because her son was struggling with addiction and it was really intense. And then there was a young gentleman there who was in recovery. And I remember the mom sharing and just, you know, the guilt she felt and the shame she felt. And she's like, I just wish I could do more and all of that. I remember this young gentleman coming up to her at the end of the meeting and just giving her a hug.
gosh, I get so emotional with these things, giving her hug and saying, it's not your fault. It's not your fault. And that's why I love these meetings because the different perspective of all of the people that go, I think is another part that makes the meetings really work and the movement really work.
Jill Griffin (28:06)
I mean, as therapists, we know the power of the group, but it's also the hardest thing to get clients to agree to do. ⁓ As someone who has an IOP program and I've run groups at Inspire before for clients. once they get into it, understand the power of being around other people and peers and people going, being in the same boat as people, right? But man, getting people to
Allie Hershman (28:13)
Mm-hmm. Totally.
Yeah.
Jill Griffin (28:34)
get there. It's like, it's so intimidating. It's so hard. And that's where like, you know, if you're a therapist, those motivational interviewing, the like really resolving some of that.
some of that like ambiguity around like how, you know, where the ambivalence around going to the group and what's so scary about that. Because once you cross over that threshold, you know, it really can be a powerful experience. And most people we talk about all the time are fighting with this loneliness epidemic. People are lonely, but then they're also scared to go be around and in community with people.
Allie Hershman (28:59)
Yeah, yeah.
Right. And that's.
Molly Bierman (29:05)
Well, that's to be seen.
That's also to be seen in a much different light. So you're asking someone not only to go step into a group, but also exercise in front of people. when, you know, in extended care, I used to work with both the men and women's program and the women, they really struggled. They really struggled to exercise, exercise in front of people, didn't want to look themselves in the mirror. I mean, those things are really real for
Allie Hershman (29:14)
Mm-hmm.
Molly Bierman (29:32)
a lot of people that have been feeling pretty down and out. think the nice part about what you offer is that it's not just for people who are struggling with addiction or in recovery will balance out what people are struggling with. So it won't just be so top heavy. Like if you have 30 women in a young adult extended care program,
They're all kind of battling similar things, right? Like, yeah, there's maybe a little bit of difference, but for the most part, they have body image issues. They're struggling to be seen. They're struggling to be able to tell the truth. They're struggling to connect with their family. They're comparing out where their other friends are. All their other friends are in college, you know? Like, all the comparisons, right? And...
to walk into a place where maybe there's a little bit more stability, whether that's from an age perspective, just with time, and time takes time, right? But also just people struggling with maybe this person's feeling a little bit lonely and depressed, but this person is really struggling with enabling and co-dependency behaviors, right? So I don't know, I feel like that's probably very magical. I really wanna go to a class, I'm definitely going. I mean, I would love to see it live.
Allie Hershman (30:18)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, no, and I think that
we won't just partner with any gym either, right? We have Colleen Delaney who does a really good job at making sure that the people that own the gym that's going to be running the program, that they can facilitate being able to welcome in someone that may have a lot of the fears around going to their first fitness class or sharing at their first meeting.
Creating that welcoming environment really starts with the gym and the coaches and all of that. And that's the first thing that we look at when we're going to partner with a new gym of how can we create this space that is welcoming and inviting to everyone, no matter what you're facing, no matter what your age is, no matter what your fitness level is, ⁓ or your experience in group settings like this. So that's really, really important to us.
Molly Bierman (31:29)
Have you had to deny gyms?
Allie Hershman (31:31)
So sometimes it won't like, it depends, right? Like it has to be a good fit. because that, like we're not there at every meeting, right? But we do try to replicate as much as we can. so I'm not, I don't really handle that as much like that side of it. Like I said, Colleen has a really good intuitive, like knack for that. But I will tell you the gyms that we have partnered with have been wonderful. Amazing. I mean, they are,
Molly Bierman (31:36)
Yeah.
Sure.
Yeah.
Cut.
Allie Hershman (31:57)
The bread and butter of this, they're changing lives. They're so dedicated. They're just, it's amazing.
Jill Griffin (32:02)
I can speak to the gym that I know of that has the Move to Heal program. And I started going there after coming back from one of my various injuries. And so I had to scale everything. it was nice coming in there and seeing there was a baby at one of the first classes I went to. And it wasn't a Move to Heal, but it's, again, speaking to how the gym.
environment is. There was a baby there in a car seat, right, because the mom was exercising in the class. There were several postpartum women. And then there were like older women that like clearly they weren't able to do the class as it was prescribed, right. But they had other things that they could do. I'm pretty sure I peed my pants jump roping at some point during that class, which, you know, that happens when you're a postpartum mom. Shout out to the pelvic floor PT appointment that I set up recently. ⁓
Allie Hershman (32:44)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Ha ha ha.
Jill Griffin (32:51)
But like, you know, that's why people, especially, we could talk about postpartum and getting back into the fitness routine, but your body is no longer yours. You're like in this alien body you've never had before. You're peeing your pants, jump roping. Like, let's be real. It's happening on a large scale, which by the way, ladies, if you're peeing your pants while you're at all, I've been told that's not normal. Postpartum, yeah. So let's...
Allie Hershman (33:04)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Molly Bierman (33:15)
It's not normal, right? Let's just normalize it for
a second. Let's not have to be normal.
Jill Griffin (33:18)
Okay, let's normalize pelvic floor
PT because in other countries in the world, that's automatic after you have a baby. So we're really...
Allie Hershman (33:20)
Yes.
Yeah, and it's not talked,
it's not talked about enough. I did pelvic floor PT for six months. Yeah. And it's, it's a game changer. Cause you're right. It isn't normal to be peeing, but everyone's like, that's normal. No, it's not. But pelvic floor. Yeah. Yeah. Pelvic floor therapy is amazing.
Jill Griffin (33:29)
No! I didn't know about it!
Molly Bierman (33:31)
What did I?
Game changer.
Jill Griffin (33:37)
No, you're not supposed to. So, know,
yeah, so shout out, shout out to those practitioners. But back to the gym environment, like that's what really got me restarted on this fitness. I pretty much took it to an extreme because I'm an alcoholic. So that's where we're at now. But that's where I like started it again.
Allie Hershman (33:57)
Postpartum.
Molly Bierman (33:58)
Yeah.
Jill Griffin (33:58)
⁓ no, I wasn't, I was not technically postpartum anymore. I restart, I was post injury, one of my many. So.
Allie Hershman (34:05)
Okay.
Molly Bierman (34:07)
What's postpartum, two years?
Jill Griffin (34:08)
I think they say two years.
Allie Hershman (34:09)
years, first two years.
Yeah. And I actually just recently got ⁓ certified. Yeah, yeah, I recently got my PMHC last year, because, and can we talk about postpartum for a minute? think that it's as a therapist, and I thought I was like, so prepared. Postpartum really hit really hard for me. And I think that
Molly Bierman (34:11)
Wow, we're still in it.
Jill Griffin (34:13)
But you two are postpartum.
Molly Bierman (34:15)
Yeah.
Jill Griffin (34:23)
Yeah, absolutely.
Molly Bierman (34:23)
Yeah.
Allie Hershman (34:34)
Again, these things are talked about more, but I still think that they're not talked about enough and just feeling like all the different emotions from the baby blues to, you know, dealing with anxiety and depression. And for me, I six months was actually when my anxiety and depression got like the worst, which I was like, Oh, I thought it would be maybe like, I don't know, the first couple of weeks or whatnot, but six months and kind of just feeling that
so many changes in your body and your mind and you're recovering from birth like physically and mentally and then trying to take care of a newborn at the same time. really has, it's a whirlwind, at least it was for me and just the space, especially with.
you know, being able to have therapy or a move to heal, something like that, I think is so important. And we do see a lot of women coming in postpartum. And even if they're just kind of moving their body a little bit or just stretching during kind of the workout and then being able to sit in the meeting is really nice. But I know for me, postpartum, like attending some of the move to heal meetings was really helpful.
Molly Bierman (35:37)
Yeah, and just connection. mean, I think that that's like, you know, I think as people who are in recovery, we have this built in recovery system, which is so helpful, especially if you're, you know, active in 12 step support. But I really, you know, I think after I had my son, I cried about the women.
Jill Griffin (35:38)
I mean, yeah.
Molly Bierman (36:00)
I tell this story frequently. I really was fucked up about the women that were birthing babies alone, raising them alone. I recently went down to bring some support into a facility down in Baltimore city that take in women and women and children. And I was watching these women who are fighting for their mental health and their recovery while holding a one week old baby.
Okay. And so like for those women finding resources and being able to plug those people into support that are really doing the damn thing. Right. Like they're trying, they're doing their very, very best, but I really, you know, I'm, I feel grateful that I had such robust support and access to a smartphone to go on the Peloton app and do like a postpartum workout or
Allie Hershman (36:48)
Mm-hmm.
Molly Bierman (36:49)
you know, that I have access and space in my house, that I had childcare and support, but that's not the majority in a lot of ways, right? So how do individuals get plugged in to the right postpartum support what's right for them, right? Everybody is different. I'm just glad that you offer that and it's an inclusive environment. I mean, you go back to kind of when women or men, right, who
are single parents or needing to get support for their own recovery and then at times being shamed that they're bringing their child into that space and how much of a gap that ends up creating for individuals that need support while trying to be a parent. I mean, it is a real thing. And I have brought my kids to places when I needed support, whether that's an appointment, whether that's a support group or otherwise.
Allie Hershman (37:26)
Mm-hmm.
Molly Bierman (37:38)
And sometimes I'll get a side eye, right? Like sometimes I'll get, you know, you know, someone who's ornery and just, you know, doesn't feel like I should, they should be making noise or whatever, you know, everyone's been there in a nice restaurant, whatever it is. And, you just have to stand tall in your truth of what you need, right? What you need to be able to be a parent and to be a parent in recovery or to be a parent who's supporting someone who is in recovery. Like,
What are those things that you need to feed yourself and not really take the judgment from the other folks?
Allie Hershman (38:08)
Yeah, I think sometimes like as moms, know, we could feel shame that we might need help, know, because like isn't this supposed to be a natural thing that women do and all that and it's like the mental piece of this though is like so important and then also for moms that are like afraid to say anything because like well something is my baby gonna be taken away if I admit I'm having anxiety or I'm depressed or I'm having these intrusive thoughts, you know, and just like the education around that.
Molly Bierman (38:16)
Thank you.
Allie Hershman (38:36)
and also educating partners, you know, how can they help? What can they look for, you know, if something seems a little bit off? All of these things, again, I think are so important, just like pelvic floor therapy, which I think should be recommended to everybody after they give birth. I also think there should be a little bit more mentally, ⁓ you know, options for people and things like that. It's sometimes a little bit harder.
Molly Bierman (38:51)
Yes.
Jill Griffin (38:57)
Well, our
care model for, I'll go so far as to say women in general, but from the pre-partum pregnancy experience all the way through postpartum is lacking in a variety of ways. And I think we've become so used to this, and this goes for therapy, but our entire medical system, but especially with this particular issue, it's like,
Allie Hershman (39:12)
Yeah. Yeah.
Jill Griffin (39:23)
We've become used to this, I don't know, it's like this factory mentality. Like we're just popping out, like this is how it's done, one size fits all, like this is just how it is without kind of explaining pregnancy and having a baby is one of the most natural things that we do as women. And I think because we are so intuitive as women,
we often will know something's off with our body, our baby, something, right, before, and we bring that to these medical professionals who are in a position of power, and we're kind of gasless sometimes. No, everything looks great, the labs look great, this looks great, everything's good, and it's like, no, no, no. I mean, that's what happened to me postpartum. know, know, Molly kind of watched me go through that. I went through it with my weight, my...
Molly Bierman (39:53)
Thank you.
Jill Griffin (40:07)
I'm not losing weight after my second. What's going on? Something's not right. Something's not right. In the traditional medical model, everything looks fine. Your labs look fine. This isn't normal though. This isn't normal to carry all this extra weight after doing all the things, right? And then I eventually got diagnosed with the autoimmune disorder. But I think that even that and having the support around what your options are, how to advocate for yourself, speaking up for yourself, that it's not...
to follow your intuition. Because I think a lot of times we just, a lot of women get scared, like, no, they're the doctors, so they must know best. So like, I'm just gonna stifle my intuition and what I think is going on with my body. And it's like, you know, I think that leads to not being able to trust yourself. And that's one of the most powerful things we have as women. And again, the most natural thing as being a mother and having a baby is following that intuition that we have.
Allie Hershman (40:58)
Absolutely for yourself and for your baby too. Like I remember certain things make this is this is often most no, that's I'm like, you know and really kind of having to push and advocate for yourself Which I think is is so important and I saw the statistic and I hope I don't get this wrong I'll fact-check this but I believe including birth women get about 40 hours of care during pregnancy and birth and when you're in the hospital and 30 minutes of care postpartum Yeah
Jill Griffin (41:01)
Yeah.
Molly Bierman (41:24)
That sounds right.
Based on my experience.
Allie Hershman (41:27)
Yeah. Mind blown, right? You going for like your six week. Yeah. Six week check. Yes. Yup. Yeah. Yeah. Right.
Jill Griffin (41:28)
Yeah, ⁓ you go for little checkup. ⁓ do the PHQ-9 and the GAP and you're good. Wow, you're not depressed.
Molly Bierman (41:38)
A couple, what has
that looked like for you, mom, therapist, entrepreneur? You had a baby. What's changed? Obviously everything has changed, but you know, is there anything that you feel like for the listeners who may be juggling kind of both entrepreneurship, motherhood, being a spouse, a daughter, a friend, you know, kind of what, what has changed for you? What has been helpful for you?
Allie Hershman (42:05)
That's a great question. think, you know, prior to having my son, I said yes to pretty much everything. ⁓ you know, client needs to be seen at 9 p.m. Yeah, no problem. Do this. Yeah, no problem. And I think I've really gotten good at implementing boundaries for my own mental health, for the sake of taking care of myself, my baby, my husband, having our family unit.
And I think when, especially like in private practice, at least for me, right? Like when I was starting private practice, you kind of just got to say yes and do it and you're grinding and you're trying to get yourself out there. And a lot of that has shifted for me. And I always say like, it's not to say that I won't get back to certain parts of my business that I felt were, you know, really just like on the up and up, but I also am willing to kind of take some space to be
a mom that's also a therapist. And that was like a big reason why I wanted to go into private practice too, was to kind of have some flexibility to be able, now granted, I didn't realize like move to heel and all of my podcasts and things like that, that have failed my schedule too. But to have kind of some of that flexibility where, you know, I can spend an hour or two with my son in the morning before seeing my first client on a Monday or something like that. But I've
I've always just had this like hustle, hustle, hustle mentality. And while that served me well in some chapters of my life, it wasn't serving me well in this chapter of motherhood that I'm in right now. And like I said, it's not to say that that can't change, but for right now I am just trying to set some more boundaries for myself and kind of listen to myself, like what feels good and what doesn't feel so good.
And that's really completely new for me. And I don't know, maybe I'm a little embarrassed to admit that I should have maybe had that unlock beforehand, but it's been a really big learning experience. And then perspective overall, just perspective in the way that I am as a therapist now, especially for moms and people that are struggling with trying to get pregnant or going through the IBF journey or postpartum care, child loss. mean, all these different things.
perspective around it. I think it's made me a little bit more human and less like therapy mind sometimes and it's actually served me well, I think.
Molly Bierman (44:24)
Yeah, I I think that's also the experience that we talk about, right? Like your network expands, your experience expands. So many things change. I can totally relate to the grind, you know, and the hustle. And I know Jill can too. You know, I think that there is, some people will say to me, like, how do you do it all? Right. But I think there is a lot of flexibility now that I once didn't have. Like when I have my first son or my first child,
Allie Hershman (44:48)
Hmm.
Molly Bierman (44:51)
I didn't have that flexibility and Jill didn't either. talk about this a lot on this platform. Just there was such rigidity in my schedule. I had to leave at the same time. I didn't get home till I was always on call. It was seven days a week, 24 hours out of the day, 365. mean, it just, there was, there wasn't a pause, you know, there wasn't like, I'm not going to, can't take this call right now. Like that wasn't really an option, you know, cause it began and ended with us in a lot of ways.
Allie Hershman (45:06)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Molly Bierman (45:18)
And now I feel like although I've taken on a lot more projects, starting my own business, know, starting the podcast, doing some consulting, all these fun things, there is a lot more flexibility in the day where I can for an hour step out and go for a walk with my daughter or go pick my son up from school, you know? So I think...
It's important to also not beat ourselves up and say like what way our life should be at this juncture, right? Should it look different? Should it be that I'm regimenting more schedule because I feel so scattered sometimes or that I'm, you know, could create more holes for my kids because they're not getting enough? Like, I think it was important when you said like just to be present in like where I am today. Like that's about all I have control over. In this moment.
Allie Hershman (46:02)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah. And it's, yeah.
Jill Griffin (46:07)
Well, get
judged more than men do for being ambitious while also raising a child. I was looking at criticisms of celebrities recently, females who continued their career while also, and there's questions around like, well, who's raising the baby and this, that, and the other. And it's like, you know, guys, why is this just on the, like, it's okay for a man to have a baby and then continue doing whatever he's doing, but it's not okay for the woman?
It's okay to do both. It's also okay if you want to completely quit the corporate world or whatever you were doing and be a stay at home mother, if that's what you're drawn to do. I think we all have different ambitions and sometimes finding that balance or what we talk about all time balance is bullshit, but like finding what that looks like, think our identities shift. And I always look at it as like the mother identity added to who I was. It didn't mean that I had to take away the other parts of me.
to step into that mother role.
Allie Hershman (47:03)
Hmm, absolutely. And I think identity too, postpartum, at least the first year, I will say kind of once I hit that year mark, I felt a lot better, maybe more myself, I'm not really sure. But even just like trying to figure out like, who am I right now with all the things that I still like loved prior to becoming a mom and all of that. And also just like the pressure of that is put on women. This is kind of a silly example, but
You know, when my husband and I go out to eat, I always have to change the baby's diaper because there's not even a changing table in the men's room. Like, what's up with that?
Molly Bierman (47:37)
or a changing table at all, okay? I went ballistic on a place in, this is one of my rants, sometimes I end up going full tilt, but I was at a restaurant out at the beach, where were we? Oh, we were in LBI. And I went in there when Bodie was a baby and there was no changing table.
Allie Hershman (47:39)
Or at all, I know, I'm like.
Molly Bierman (48:00)
And it just infuriated me because it was like, it's a family town. It's a family, you know, family restaurants, come on, come all these huge tables with these big families and there's no changing table. So I made a complaint and then I left alone. Well, I come back the next year and now Madden's here and she needs to be changed. I went full send full send on the management team, fully went unhinged because I was like, this is
Jill Griffin (48:23)
Ow.
Molly Bierman (48:27)
inappropriate and just so you know, I will be changing my daughter at the table in the stroller next to another customer. Like that's where we are. I mean, if there's no place to change them, there's no place to change them. But talk about going when I didn't even realize that when Bodie and you don't think about it until you have a baby and you need to change a diaper. You literally don't think about it. But I remember bringing my son to New York for my sister-in-law's wedding. He was only three months old and we went to a couple of restaurants out in New York. No changing table
Allie Hershman (48:44)
Right. Yeah.
Jill Griffin (48:54)
But there's no bathrooms
for adults, let alone no changing table in New York City. Please!
Molly Bierman (48:56)
No changing tables, but it's crazy.
Allie Hershman (48:56)
Yeah.
Molly Bierman (49:00)
It is so crazy.
Allie Hershman (49:00)
Yeah. And again, you don't, I never even looked for a changing table prior to having, right? So it is just that, that, that shift.
Molly Bierman (49:06)
Of course not.
What are some things now that you do for your own self care? You're a therapist, you're a business owner, you're a mom. What are some things that people might not know about you? Some things that you do to kind of take care of yourself?
Allie Hershman (49:26)
Yeah, so fitness for me has always just been like my space where and group fitness, I really enjoy like the group classes where I could put my phone down for 45 minutes. I love like the f45 style classes, and just have that I will say, it's just a little bit more challenging now with work and you know, childcare and things like that getting to those certain classes. But when I do I
really enjoy it and I try to make it a priority to get there like you know three times a week ⁓ minimum. That's really big. Going to therapy myself, both individual and couples therapy. My husband and I, we a couple years ago we went through or we had gotten into a really bad accident. This is like right after we had gotten engaged and he actually had to get a few of his fingers amputated.
and the physical and the mental recovery from that had started to shape our relationship in a way that wasn't really beneficial for either of us. And we both really committed to going to couples therapy and his own therapy, my own therapy, and I've done therapy since I was like 15, but my own therapy as well. And just the shift in marriage and then, or sorry, in our relationship at the time.
and just kind of coming out of that on the other end of that and then getting married and finding out we were pregnant and kind of just the shift that our life has taken, but we really still make it such a priority for ourselves to have that therapy for both couples and individual. And I preach that all day long. Like I'm a really big advocate for that. And then,
Aside from, of course, like trying to really be present and put my phone away. That's like a really big thing. At night when we put our son to bed, my husband and I really make it a priority to have dinner together and to watch a show where we either get through the whole thing or we both fall asleep because we're exhausted from the day. But we really try to like, you know, make it a point to kind of have that little date time and keep the relationship a priority. Because, you know, that can definitely get lost with the chaos of just
trying to balance everything, which I like that balance is bullshit because it really is. ⁓ But kind of doing some of those things, family, friends, you know, but being present is like kind of my word this year. Like I'm really trying to be intentional with that.
Molly Bierman (51:45)
I was also watching this video of a mom who, don't know if you guys have this experience, but regularly I am running late. Okay. It's not my children. So, but I'll be like, come on, we gotta go. We're going to be late. Come on, we gotta go. We're going to be late. And, and to really kind of say like,
Is it a crisis? If we need to get there a little bit earlier, then I need to change my schedule because my children are just following suit to whatever I'm doing. So if I know it's going to be an extra 15 minutes to get my son out of the house because he's, you know, doing lasers in the corner or whatever he's doing, like then I just need to make more time and room for that. Right. So that's also been something that I've, feel like I've really been trying to bring into this year is, you know, being present, but also not being,
Allie Hershman (52:21)
Mm-hmm.
Molly Bierman (52:29)
not rushing, but somehow I fall short every week. But you know, today's a new day.
Allie Hershman (52:30)
Yeah.
Jill Griffin (52:33)
You create these imaginary
like, there's like an imaginary clock running or like time period that you are, you have a schedule that you don't share with everybody else is what happens. And I know this because last night at eight o'clock when in my mind, the kids are going to be in bed by 730 because we just came back from vacation. And my husband goes,
Molly Bierman (52:41)
Yeah.
Allie Hershman (52:45)
you
Jill Griffin (52:55)
mommy had a plan in her head she didn't share with everybody else. Said it out loud to everybody and that's exactly what happened because I had a plan. I didn't share that plan with everybody though. So then I start getting frantic. Yeah. Yeah. So then I get frantic. Why aren't you in bed? Well, he's not in bed because no one's putting the kid to bed. I mean, what's happening here?
Allie Hershman (53:01)
my gosh.
Yeah, I'm so guilty of ⁓
Molly Bierman (53:08)
That's exactly, that's
me, that's me. ⁓
Allie Hershman (53:19)
my gosh. Relatable.
Molly Bierman (53:20)
It's really children,
Jill Griffin (53:20)
So, yeah.
Molly Bierman (53:22)
children really just do it to you, you know, they just do.
Jill Griffin (53:25)
So
we do this thing at the end of every episode where we give a permission slip to our listeners. So it's something that is like a takeaway for them to take into their week. So what would your permission slip be for our listeners?
Allie Hershman (53:38)
my gosh, what a great question.
It's never too late. That's kind of what I've been thinking about lately. that's, know, whether that's trying something new, whether that's changing up, you know, routine, just this is like such a small example. But sometimes I could be guilty of like, you know, scrolling on my phone at night. Well, it's never too late to swap that out to just reading a book, you know, and I started doing that two weeks ago and I'm reading this, great.
motivational book. you know, I just think that it's never too late. I think sometimes we can look at age or time or this or that, and we feel like it's already passed us. But that's not the case, you know, we can always switch direction at any time, we can always add something, we could take something out, and it's never too late.
Molly Bierman (54:14)
Yeah.
I love that. If people want to find you, how can they find you? How can they find move to heal? How can they find you as a therapist? All the deets.
Jill Griffin (54:24)
I love that.
Allie Hershman (54:34)
Yes, so move to heal www.move2healct.org. You can find out a ton of information about the program itself, the locations where it's offered and move2heal.ct on Instagram. And then my therapy page, which is alexandria, a-l-e-x-a-n-d-r-i-a, Hirschman, h-e-r-s-h-m-a-n, that's Instagram and that's also
my website as well. And that's kind of the main spots that you can find us.
Molly Bierman (55:07)
and your podcast because you shared with me at the beginning of this episode that you do a podcast for little kids, which is so amazing. And I just subscribed. So can you share a little bit about that too?
Allie Hershman (55:12)
Yes.
my gosh, thank you. Yes,
Ollie and friends. really is. Again, kind of going back to motherhood. I felt like I was kind of lacking that creative outlet and I decided to do a kids podcast. So screen free 10 minute episodes, storytime spelling, we sing, we dance, we do the whole thing. It's so good for car rides. It's great for throwing it on when you know,
changing a diaper, playing in the room, whatever it is. And that's Olly and Friends. And you can find that anywhere that you listen to podcasts.
Molly Bierman (55:51)
Guys, there's a lot of nuggets in this episode. Allie, we're so, so grateful. Thank you so much for joining us. I can't wait to check out one of your classes at Move to Heal. And if anybody is interested in finding out more information, we'll have all of Allie's information in the show notes, in some collab posts. And if you haven't already, please give us a like, follow, subscribe on YouTube, all of our platforms, Spotify, Apple, or wherever you find your podcasts. Until next time, thank you so much.
Allie Hershman (56:16)
Thank you guys so much.
Jill Griffin (56:17)
Thank you.