Season 2 Episode 10 with Jill Griffin & Molly Bierman
Can you become so focused on fixing yourself that you forget to enjoy your life?
In this episode of No Permission Necessary, Jill Griffin and Molly Bierman explore the self-improvement trap, the difference between healthy self-reflection and rumination, and the pressure to constantly find something about yourself that needs changing.
Through their experiences in behavioral health, therapy, recovery, and leadership, they discuss why self-awareness doesn't always lead to action, how personal growth can become an endless cycle of self-criticism, and why it's important to make room for celebrating progress.
Jill and Molly also explore why achieving long-held goals doesn't always bring satisfaction, how periods of stability can feel uncomfortable, and what happens when we become so focused on our own challenges that we miss opportunities for connection and enjoyment.
This conversation is an invitation to recognize how far you've come, appreciate what's going well, and give yourself permission to stop treating every part of your life as a problem that needs solving.
Because sometimes the next step in personal growth is learning to simply be.
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Jill Griffin (00:00)
the more you look at
yourself and your problems the more trouble that you're in.
Molly Bierman (00:05)
One hundred percent.
Jill Griffin (00:06)
It's like, well, at what point are you gonna be like, this is where I wanted to be a year ago, five years ago, 10 years ago? I'm there now, but I can't enjoy it because I'm looking at how much.
better I should or could or would be
right, so a good takeaway is to ask, is this a reflection or is this a rumination? Because if it
Molly Bierman (00:27)
Mm.
Jill Griffin (00:27)
has no exit and you're just looping about this thing, you're allowed to stop, you're allowed to put it down.
it's such like a boiled down way to be like, yeah, you know, the more you magnify this thing, the more it's gonna seem like it's bigger and bigger and bigger, right? And the reason why it came up too is I had this client that we mutually decided we were gonna discharge, and they were kind of surprised that I was suggesting discharge
Molly Bierman (00:59)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Jill Griffin (01:01)
because I
There's this notion that people have, and if you are in therapy, I want you to listen up.
This is maybe not if you're a therapy practice owner, you might wanna shut your ears right now. But I'm gonna just throw something out there to all the therapy goers. You're not meant to be in therapy every week for the rest of your life. That's just not how therapy is supposed to go. And if you're just chit-chatting with your therapist, we are not doing therapy.
You also, if you are going to your session, kind of making things like, what do I have to talk about today? Like, maybe you don't need to be going to therapy anymore and you just need to go live your life. That's possible.
Molly Bierman (01:44)
Well, I think there's
yeah, I think there's a really, you know, somebody once told me this and I think it's really important to mention. You need time to integrate the things that
Jill Griffin (01:55)
Yes.
Molly Bierman (01:55)
you have been doing in any sort of clinical setting. And so if you're not giving yourself an opportunity to integrate, then you really don't know where your blind spots still are.
Jill Griffin (02:05)
It it's such a nuanced conversation though, you know, on the one hand, it's like you have all this self-help stuff, right? All this the therapy and all this stuff where you kind of have to you have to identify the problem to fix the problem, right?
But then there becomes this line where it's like, if you're just trying to take inventory of the negative things and the things you have to fix at all times and all points, you're missing the point of living. I feel like you're missing a big part of the work that you're doing, which is taking the stock and inventory of what are the things that I've gained? What are the new skills that I have now? What are the things that
You know, or on the other side of that that I'm now gonna focus on and nurture and, you know, pour into. Yes, I still have things to work on, but this is the momentum I'm gonna focus on now instead of finding another problem to go fix.
Molly Bierman (02:59)
You know, don't know if this has been hard for you, but in a lot of ways, the way that we were taught early on through getting sober was always constantly seeing where our side of the street could be cleaner, number one, and where we could be giving back to others. So it really didn't offer a lot of opportunity to sit in the reward.
but there is such an opportunity to say, I can actually just be. Like I don't necessarily need to be focused on the next thing that I need to tackle or the next trauma that I need to excavate. Right.
Jill Griffin (03:34)
Just it as a therapist and as an owner of a therapy practice, I just want to be very clear that when you are going to therapy, you need to self-reflect. There needs to be this period of time where we're looking internally
Molly Bierman (03:49)
Yes.
Jill Griffin (03:51)
and really analyzing like yourself. So, yes,
Molly Bierman (03:54)
Mm-hmm.
Jill Griffin (03:55)
that is a part of it. However,
You can recover from whatever it is in your life. You can go to therapy
Molly Bierman (04:01)
Mm-hmm.
Jill Griffin (04:02)
for X problem. You go to therapy. You can still have other things to work on, but be functioning at a level where you know what? We're gonna take some space away from picking at it and playing with it and looking at it and turning over more stones. We're just gonna take, I feel good right now. I feel good. Yes, there's this other thing that I need to open up the box and look at, but.
I'm gonna integrate. I'm gonna go out and I'm gonna see how I relationally, fit with other people in the world. I'm gonna go and practice my new coping skills. I'm gonna like be okay with this new version of me for a while before I go back in and do the work. And that's okay. I feel like
Molly Bierman (04:44)
Well
Jill Griffin (04:45)
too many times therapists are creating an unhealthy dependency that is not fair to a client in that relationship because
When you're a client, you don't know better. You're listening to the therapist a lot of time and what their recommendation is.
Molly Bierman (04:57)
Well, I think also what happens is we create this rumination cycle, right? So we're constantly ruminating on what we could be doing better, where we're falling short, what we could be doing
Jill Griffin (05:06)
Yes.
Molly Bierman (05:07)
better, where we could fall short. And so what happens is that your nervous system naturally kicks into overdrive and you're not able to embody the things that have gone well. So, you know, the self-improvement treadmill is a real thing.
I think that really getting clear in the play and the fun and the connection and the celebrations. I mean, me personally, I do, an immersive experiential workshop once a year. And I've been doing it for a decade with a group of women. This will be our tenth year together.
And we've done some real shit in there, okay? Like four days, no BS, nothing is off the table.
There was one year that I was like, God, like I just don't want to excavate this year. Like I don't have anything left to talk about, right? Like I am at my max. We've I feel like I've seen it all, I've done it all, I've turned it all over, I've done all the things. And finally my facilitator said to me, She was like, Well, why don't we just do like a celebration piece? And I was like, my god, that sounds
Jill Griffin (06:06)
Yeah.
Molly Bierman (06:07)
so great. Let's do that. And we
Jill Griffin (06:09)
Yeah.
Molly Bierman (06:10)
did,
Jill Griffin (06:11)
I just feel
like there the rumination piece that you're talking about and the self-improvement treadmill, it it there's no exit to that, right? There's no and and you don't exit out to the celebration. sometimes that gets lost in in this in this improvement piece. It's like, well, at what point are you gonna be like, this is where I wanted to be a year ago, five years ago, 10 years ago? I'm there now, but I can't enjoy it because I'm looking at how much.
better I should or could or would be if I did XYZ. And
Molly Bierman (06:43)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Jill Griffin (06:45)
so some of the some of the toughest people to work with is the people who have the best insight on why they do the things they do, what the problem is, all the things, but they're not doing something different. It's like you you almost get some people almost get stuck in the doing of the solving of the problem. And it's like, why can't
We need to exit out of it and just like, this is where we are now, you know. I I
Molly Bierman (07:10)
Right.
Jill Griffin (07:10)
think of it part of the reason why I think this came up for me it is because of my own fitness journey and weight loss journey and all of that stuff. And I've gone back and forth with like, I wanna be ex. I wanna be in this place. And it's like,
Molly Bierman (07:24)
Mm-hmm.
Jill Griffin (07:24)
okay, but.
Five years ago, you wanted to be where you were like even a year ago or right now. And so at at what point are we just goals are and I don't wanna I don't wanna say like don't have goals. That's not the per that's not I just wanna be very clear on that. It's like goals are good, but at what cost? At what
Molly Bierman (07:41)
Mm-hmm. Right.
Jill Griffin (07:43)
cost are we like are we pursuing a goal? And and sometimes the goals that we're setting are maybe unrealistic or unattainable.
Molly Bierman (07:51)
Uh-huh.
Jill Griffin (07:52)
And and then we get
this negative feedback loop to ourselves too.
Molly Bierman (07:56)
Yeah. 100%.
When we're trying to figure out like why we do something and how we want to do something differently, how do we honor that while also like how can both coexist?
Jill Griffin (08:11)
you know what just popped in my head is I find that a lot of people who have addiction histories, recovery history, or they're in recovery trauma histories, like there is this piece about things being okay and content as being very dysregulating and very destabilizing because you're almost
Molly Bierman (08:29)
Mm.
Jill Griffin (08:30)
waiting for the other shoe to drop. So when
Molly Bierman (08:32)
Mm-hmm.
Jill Griffin (08:33)
I'm thinking about focusing on you and your problems in a way where
It's impeding you being present and available and helpful to other people in your life. So
Molly Bierman (08:44)
Mm-hmm.
Jill Griffin (08:44)
It's going back to, you know, me as an EMDR therapist. It's like going back into your body. Like if you start feeling that like discomfort when things are okay, like people are healthy, your job is good, your,
Molly Bierman (08:56)
Mm-hmm.
Jill Griffin (08:56)
you know, your relationship is good, things are all good. It's okay to just be in that. And if that discomfort
Molly Bierman (08:58)
Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah. Totally.
Jill Griffin (09:03)
shows up as anxiety, worry about what's next, that's the thing to kind of settle into and be like, okay.
Molly Bierman (09:10)
Mm-hmm.
Jill Griffin (09:11)
My problem is actually I don't have a problem. That's where it's let me focus on who can I help? Who can I like what does my child need right now? What does my
Molly Bierman (09:20)
Mm-hmm.
Jill Griffin (09:20)
husband need from me or my spouse need from me right now? How can I show up differently for work? And that's that is the subtle shift where it's like, I think if we can in those moments and if we can recognize this is me looking at myself and my problems too long.
Molly Bierman (09:37)
Mm.
Jill Griffin (09:37)
We can then shift into how can I be other focused in this moment so that this is doesn't become a problem where it doesn't have to be.
Molly Bierman (09:46)
Yeah. and I think it takes people to be able to educate that topic, right?
I mean, people are using AI to a very large degree, especially in this space. And again, it's good to have helpful information about some of the challenges, but it's also crucial to say, what's going well and where are you struggling?
Right? Like what has worked for you, what has not worked? You're never not gonna have a moment where you feel like you're falling short, but it's about not living there on this repetitive hamster wheel. And trust me.
Jill Griffin (10:21)
Yeah, we're like on a carousel
of like pick a problem, solve a problem. Like,
Molly Bierman (10:27)
Mm-hmm.
Jill Griffin (10:27)
I just don't it that becomes, you know, exhausting. I just think if we can point the attention towards being service to someone else, getting out of our head and into the room, like it could be as simple as like
A mom who's overwhelmed because they have to do XYZ and don't I don't know. Like it sometimes it's like we get so focused on what the problem is. When our kid just wants to play Legos on the floor, like that's all they really care about. And it's like it could be that simple, but it has to be that moment of recognition of like,
Molly Bierman (10:59)
Mm-hmm.
Jill Griffin (11:00)
okay, I'm thinking of myself and my problems again.
Molly Bierman (11:04)
Right.
Jill Griffin (11:05)
but I think that's a human thing. It's humans are just we're with ourselves all the time. and there becomes a point where that insight and self-reflection just starts working against you instead of just showing up as like going back to like what's the version of myself I want to show up as.
Molly Bierman (11:22)
It's hard though. That's hard for people.
Jill Griffin (11:24)
It's hard and it's it's one of those things where
I got to a point with myself over the past couple of weeks where it's like, what can we just like be which my husband says to me all the time, but I feel like I've got there myself this week where I'm like, Can we just not
Molly Bierman (11:37)
Yeah.
Jill Griffin (11:37)
do anything different or new? Can I just I'm just gonna I'm just gonna exist.
Molly Bierman (11:41)
That's when I need to delete the
social media, I need to take the hiatus, I need to go like put my feet in grass and have the sun beat on my face and just not do anything.
Jill Griffin (11:54)
I took a nap in the middle of the day yesterday.
Molly Bierman (11:56)
Whoa. On a weekday? That feels risky.
Jill Griffin (12:00)
I went and took a 45-minute nap and felt like a brand new person after.
Molly Bierman (12:04)
There you go.
Jill Griffin (12:05)
Yeah. But that goes back to me thinking about myself and my problems. Like at the end of the day, sometimes these problems, I'm gonna be honest with you guys, because everyone listening, you do this too. I don't care who you are or what how your brain is set up, but you also do this.
We make problems out of things that are not problems. We create
Molly Bierman (12:24)
Yeah.
Jill Griffin (12:25)
these things that we feel are barriers or things or and it's not. We've made we've made it up.
Molly Bierman (12:31)
You know, I was actually just thinking about the correlation between also being able to accept a compliment, you know? I think there's also something in that. Like if someone compliments
Jill Griffin (12:40)
Yes.
Molly Bierman (12:41)
you on something and your immediate reaction is to go to like either one, push it away, two, find something else to talk about, three, find something that's wrong.
That's also you kind of doing the same thing that we're talking about, right? Which is
Jill Griffin (12:53)
Yeah.
Molly Bierman (12:53)
there's something that needs to improve, there's something I need to be doing better. That can't actually be, I can't absorb that. And I think this kind of goes back to,
you know, when we're kind of consistently looking at problems, what we're really blocking is the level of unconditional love and connection, right?
So just as much as it is pouring into others and being of service, those break down the barriers so that way you can give and receive freely, right?
Jill Griffin (13:20)
Which reminds me that really this theme has been coming up for me longer than I heard this quote this week, because my business partner had pointed out to me, like they jokingly were like, Jill's the problem finder. And he's not wrong. Like, I am the problem finder. And and and
Molly Bierman (13:34)
same, same.
Jill Griffin (13:39)
what comes with that, you can be the problem finder and you can be pointing that stuff out, but as the problem finder.
In in this is for you supervisors or owners or managers. If you are that person, you better make sure that you're doubling down on celebrating the wins and pointing out what's going right. And I think that
Molly Bierman (13:58)
Totally.
Jill Griffin (14:01)
is what has been brought to my attention,
It's just like, if I'm doing this thing and finding all these faults, and which you'll find and people aren't doing the things that you want them to be doing. Okay.
But there's a bunch of things they're doing the way you want them to be doing them. And that's what we need to make sure that we're pointing
Molly Bierman (14:16)
Right. What's going well? Yeah.
Jill Griffin (14:18)
out too, if we're taking that inventory.
Molly Bierman (14:21)
Mm-hmm.
Jill Griffin (14:22)
Let's do the rapid fire.
Molly Bierman (14:24)
The problem you've analyzed to death.
Jill Griffin (14:27)
I would
say my health. I was just texting about my lab results this week. Like I'm fi everything's fine. Like why is it there doesn't have to be a I th I think
Molly Bierman (14:35)
A lot of analytics
flying around in present day, okay? We got a lot of analytics that you can do. You could do your in-home blood work, special scales, body composition.
Jill Griffin (14:41)
I got my blood. I got my blood. I'm looking at all these things. And it's like, I'm fucking over it. Like,
I'm, I'm fucking, yes.
Molly Bierman (14:50)
Yeah.
Jill Griffin (14:50)
The self-help book, you
never finished.
Molly Bierman (14:54)
W I can't remember the name of it, but it was one around like your kid under a year. It's like the famous one. And I was like, I started reading it and I was like, no, we're just gonna go with it. Like, whatever. This is too much. And it's like
Jill Griffin (15:02)
Mine was a parenting book too. I was like, Yeah, we're this We're not doing those.
Molly Bierman (15:10)
800 pages. I don't know. It looks very large. I was like, I'm not into this.
what would you do with the hour a day you spend thinking about you?
Jill Griffin (15:23)
Napping? Can I say that?
Molly Bierman (15:25)
Yeah. I would say being of service.
Jill Griffin (15:28)
I have been trying to really not be thinking about myself lately. It takes some conscious effort.
Molly Bierman (15:35)
How's it been going?
Jill Griffin (15:38)
I mean, I mean, if you think about it, it's like my schedule, when I
can work out. Like it's just all these things. You're just this me, me, me. You don't really think of it like that. It's not in a s it's not in a selfish, like intent.
Molly Bierman (15:47)
Yeah, that's true. That's being masked because
it's self-improvement. It's being masked by self-improvement versus selfishness. Hot
Jill Griffin (15:54)
Yeah. Well when when can I work out? When can I Yeah.
Molly Bierman (15:58)
take.
Okay, fair enough.
Jill Griffin (16:01)
all right, so a good takeaway is to ask, is this a reflection or is this a rumination? Because if it
Molly Bierman (16:07)
Mm.
Jill Griffin (16:08)
has no exit and you're just looping about this thing, you're allowed to stop, you're allowed to put it down.
And also permission to not always be fixing yourself. You are okay just the way you are.
Molly Bierman (16:21)
Follow us on Instagram and on whatever podcast platform you are listening to. And we'll see you guys next week.
Jill Griffin (16:29)
See you next week.
